x
New Member
Posts: 41
Likes: 27
Country: United States of America
Region: East Coast
Politics: Christian democracy
Religion: Protestantism
Hero: Dwight L. Moody
Philosophy: Aesthetics
|
Post by x on Jun 30, 2018 0:02:11 GMT
I don't understand it, please explain it to me.
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Jun 30, 2018 0:12:07 GMT
Amen. I never understood it either. Bible only says we live once then we die and have judgment and after that either heaven or hell. Some people just like making stuff up. Shrug
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 0:29:43 GMT
That souls of those who weren't Internet trolls and other human garbage, end up there. So basically everyone who was not bad enough to end up in Hell. Then, after some time, a soul which resided in the Purgatory may go to Heaven and sing songs.
|
|
x
New Member
Posts: 41
Likes: 27
Country: United States of America
Region: East Coast
Politics: Christian democracy
Religion: Protestantism
Hero: Dwight L. Moody
Philosophy: Aesthetics
|
Post by x on Jun 30, 2018 0:34:07 GMT
That souls of those who weren't Internet trolls and other human garbage, end up there. So basically everyone who was not bad enough to end up in Hell. Then, after some time, a soul which resided in the Purgatory may go to Heaven and sing songs.
But what about
2 Corinthians 5:10 Amplified Bible (AMP)
10 For we [believers will be called to account and] must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be repaid for what has been done in the body, whether good or bad [that is, each will be held responsible for his actions, purposes, goals, motives—the use or misuse of his time, opportunities and abilities].
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 1:09:01 GMT
That souls of those who weren't Internet trolls and other human garbage, end up there. So basically everyone who was not bad enough to end up in Hell. Then, after some time, a soul which resided in the Purgatory may go to Heaven and sing songs.
But what about
2 Corinthians 5:10 Amplified Bible (AMP)
10 For we [believers will be called to account and] must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be repaid for what has been done in the body, whether good or bad [that is, each will be held responsible for his actions, purposes, goals, motives—the use or misuse of his time, opportunities and abilities]. Possibly Paul didn't have enough of ink in his inkwell so he had to keep the story short. You asked what Catholics believe about the Purgatory, so I answered.
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Jun 30, 2018 15:32:34 GMT
It’s not biblical. There’s nothing in the Bible that supports the idea of purgatory, it’s a Catholic myth.
|
|
|
Post by theringdingster on Jul 2, 2018 5:07:49 GMT
Purgatory is a spiritual state where God shows us the merits of our sin by depriving us of His presence. As 1 Corinthians 3:15 states, "If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire". This fire alludes to the agony we will face being without the mere presence of Our Lord. When we sin we hurt our relationship with God not by hurting Him in some way, but by hurting ourselves by turning away from Him and to ourselves to gain fulfillment. God wants nothing but for us to be fulfilled by coming into his presence and knowing the glory of who He is, since that is the grand mystery of our universe, but turning to ourselves in sin makes us say no to that salvation since it is a denial of Himself. In the world we live in we are so surrounded by God and His creation that we can not conceptualize what a world without Him is like, and the deprivation of even the smallest glimmer of that is the deepest kind of pain that we can bear.
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Jul 2, 2018 5:24:05 GMT
Purgatory is a spiritual state where God shows us the merits of our sin by depriving us of His presence. As 1 Corinthians 3:15 states, "If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire". This fire alludes to the agony we will face being without the mere presence of Our Lord. When we sin we hurt our relationship with God not by hurting Him in some way, but by hurting ourselves by turning away from Him and to ourselves to gain fulfillment. God wants nothing but for us to be fulfilled by coming into his presence and knowing the glory of who He is, since that is the grand mystery of our universe, but turning to ourselves in sin makes us say no to that salvation since it is a denial of Himself. In the world we live in we are so surrounded by God and His creation that we can not conceptualize what a world without Him is like, and the deprivation of even the smallest glimmer of that is the deepest kind of pain that we can bear. It kind of sounds like you're describing hell as really purgatory instead. Did I missunderstand? Also what happens in chronological order in events after we leave the earth as in die?
|
|
|
Post by theringdingster on Jul 2, 2018 5:42:00 GMT
Purgatory is a spiritual state where God shows us the merits of our sin by depriving us of His presence. As 1 Corinthians 3:15 states, "If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire". This fire alludes to the agony we will face being without the mere presence of Our Lord. When we sin we hurt our relationship with God not by hurting Him in some way, but by hurting ourselves by turning away from Him and to ourselves to gain fulfillment. God wants nothing but for us to be fulfilled by coming into his presence and knowing the glory of who He is, since that is the grand mystery of our universe, but turning to ourselves in sin makes us say no to that salvation since it is a denial of Himself. In the world we live in we are so surrounded by God and His creation that we can not conceptualize what a world without Him is like, and the deprivation of even the smallest glimmer of that is the deepest kind of pain that we can bear. It kind of sounds like you're describing hell as really purgatory instead. Did I missunderstand? Also what happens in chronological order in events after we leave the earth as in die? Hell and Purgatory have the same purpose but different ends. Both Hell and Purgatory are separations from the presence of God, Hell being eternal and Purgatory being temporary. When we die, our soul is separated from our bodies and we are judged in what is called the Particular Judgement, which discerns if we are worthy of Heaven or Hell. If we in our lives deny God, we go to Hell. If we are worthy of Heaven in some capacity, we are first cleansed by Purgatory in order to remove any shred of sinfulness that would destroy us when we would see the face of God in what is called the Beatific Vision.
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Jul 2, 2018 5:57:02 GMT
It kind of sounds like you're describing hell as really purgatory instead. Did I missunderstand? Also what happens in chronological order in events after we leave the earth as in die? Hell and Purgatory have the same purpose but different ends. Both Hell and Purgatory are separations from the presence of God, Hell being eternal and Purgatory being temporary. When we die, our soul is separated from our bodies and we are judged in what is called the Particular Judgement, which discerns if we are worthy of Heaven or Hell. If we in our lives deny God, we go to Hell. If we are worthy of Heaven in some capacity, we are first cleansed by Purgatory in order to remove any shred of sinfulness that would destroy us when we would see the face of God in what is called the Beatific Vision.Oh, I see. Can I get a bible verse for the part I bolded? But doesn't Jesus only remove sins by His blood? Isn't another thing that removes sin like purgatory...limiting the power of Christ on the cross for dying for sins?
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Jul 2, 2018 6:13:28 GMT
Purgatory is a spiritual state where God shows us the merits of our sin by depriving us of His presence. As 1 Corinthians 3:15 states, "If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire". This fire alludes to the agony we will face being without the mere presence of Our Lord. When we sin we hurt our relationship with God not by hurting Him in some way, but by hurting ourselves by turning away from Him and to ourselves to gain fulfillment. God wants nothing but for us to be fulfilled by coming into his presence and knowing the glory of who He is, since that is the grand mystery of our universe, but turning to ourselves in sin makes us say no to that salvation since it is a denial of Himself. In the world we live in we are so surrounded by God and His creation that we can not conceptualize what a world without Him is like, and the deprivation of even the smallest glimmer of that is the deepest kind of pain that we can bear. Where is the scriptural support for purgatory? You said 1 Corinthians 3:15 “alludes to the agony we will face being without the mere presence of Our Lord.” but it doesn’t say that. 1 Corinthians 3:15 KJV [15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. Where does it say anything about the presence of God in this verse? The wages of sin is death, not a deprivation of His presence, Romans 6:23 KJV [23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. James 1:15 KJV [15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 1 John 5:17 KJV [17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. Sinners will not inherit the kingdom of Christ and God, but hell Ephesians 5:5 KJV [5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Psalm 55:15 KJV [15] Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them. God reigns in hell, Psalm 50:3 KJV [3] Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. Psalm 68:2 KJV [2] As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God. Proverbs 15:11 KJV [11] Hell and destruction are before the Lord : how much more then the hearts of the children of men? Revelation 14:10 KJV [10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 13:20:16 GMT
Amen. I never understood it either. Bible only says we live once then we die and have judgment and after that either heaven or hell. Some people just like making stuff up. So does bible also have verses on after life? Heaven and hell is nothing but, based on this life, and the actions of this life, how the next life would be. These are earthly possession, and how the next life of that person would get affected based on the deeds of this birth. That's why JESUS specifically asked all his disciples, not to do any SIN, and be a TRUE DEVOTEE OF GOD. And he said, I am THE LAST MESSENGER OF GOD, spreading his will, to make people righteousness, though, he paid a heavy price for being right. I know, bible also talks about salvation, which is moksha in sanskrit, or liberation. And that's the sole purpose of human life, to liberate the soul.dia Now, I am not a master of this despite being brahman, and I don't have intentions to run those PSUEDO SPIRITUAL ASHRAMS which these Indian/hindu gurujis do.
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Jul 2, 2018 17:05:23 GMT
Amen. I never understood it either. Bible only says we live once then we die and have judgment and after that either heaven or hell. Some people just like making stuff up. So does bible also have verses on after life? Heaven and hell is nothing but, based on this life, and the actions of this life, how the next life would be. These are earthly possession, and how the next life of that person would get affected based on the deeds of this birth. That's why JESUS specifically asked all his disciples, not to do any SIN, and be a TRUE DEVOTEE OF GOD. And he said, I am THE LAST MESSENGER OF GOD, spreading his will, to make people righteousness, though, he paid a heavy price for being right. I know, bible also talks about salvation, which is moksha in sanskrit, or liberation. And that's the sole purpose of human life, to liberate the soul.dia Now, I am not a master of this despite being brahman, and I don't have intentions to run those PSUEDO SPIRITUAL ASHRAMS which these Indian/hindu gurujis do. Luke 16:19-31 KJV [19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: [20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, [21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. [22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; [23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. [24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. [25] But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. [26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. [27] Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: [28] For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. [29] Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. [30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. [31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Jul 2, 2018 17:38:22 GMT
Amen. I never understood it either. Bible only says we live once then we die and have judgment and after that either heaven or hell. Some people just like making stuff up. So does bible also have verses on after life? Heaven and hell is nothing but, based on this life, and the actions of this life, how the next life would be. These are earthly possession, and how the next life of that person would get affected based on the deeds of this birth. That's why JESUS specifically asked all his disciples, not to do any SIN, and be a TRUE DEVOTEE OF GOD. And he said, I am THE LAST MESSENGER OF GOD, spreading his will, to make people righteousness, though, he paid a heavy price for being right. I know, bible also talks about salvation, which is moksha in sanskrit, or liberation. And that's the sole purpose of human life, to liberate the soul.dia Now, I am not a master of this despite being brahman, and I don't have intentions to run those PSUEDO SPIRITUAL ASHRAMS which these Indian/hindu gurujis do. Yes, bible has verses about after life. Basically eternal punishment or eternal happiness based on what you chose during this life. Shrug
|
|
|
Post by theringdingster on Jul 3, 2018 4:05:43 GMT
Hell and Purgatory have the same purpose but different ends. Both Hell and Purgatory are separations from the presence of God, Hell being eternal and Purgatory being temporary. When we die, our soul is separated from our bodies and we are judged in what is called the Particular Judgement, which discerns if we are worthy of Heaven or Hell. If we in our lives deny God, we go to Hell. If we are worthy of Heaven in some capacity, we are first cleansed by Purgatory in order to remove any shred of sinfulness that would destroy us when we would see the face of God in what is called the Beatific Vision.Oh, I see. Can I get a bible verse for the part I bolded? But doesn't Jesus only remove sins by His blood? Isn't another thing that removes sin like purgatory...limiting the power of Christ on the cross for dying for sins? I hate to just throw verses out and not explain them in totality, but there are many of which that bolster the doctrine of Purgatory- listed thus: In response to the bolded:Hebrews 12:14 - strive for that holiness without which one cannot see God Further verses being evidence of Purgatory:Matthew 5:48 - be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect James 3:2 - we fall short in many aspects Revelation 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter Heaven 1 John 5:16-17 - degrees of sin distinguished James 1:14-15 - when sin reaches maturity it gives birth to death 2 Samuel 12:13-14 - David, though forgiven, still punished for sin Matthew 5:26 - you will not be released until paid the last penny Matthew 12:32 - sin against the Holy Spirit unforgiven in this age or next Matthew 12:36 account for every idle word on judgement day 2 Maccabees 12:44-46 - atoned for dead to free them from sin 1 Corinthians 3:15 - suffer loss, but saved as through fire 1 Peter 3:18-20;4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in prison 2 Timothy 1:16-18 - Paul prays for dead friend Onesiphorus 1 Corinthians 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people baptizing for the dead
|
|