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Post by AmericanCharm on Jun 28, 2018 3:07:13 GMT
Some people have referred to Metal/Rock music as the Devils music. As a Metal head/rocker I have heard this plenty of times and certain aspects of the music may lead one to have that impression. Some bands sing about Hell and Lucifer. Embracing darker colors and rebellious nature.
There are some interesting passages that have caught my interest in the past about Lucifer, his musical abilities, and connection with music. I’d like to hear the opinions of some believers on this subject.
Ezekiel 28:13- Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Tabrets and pipes are musical instruments.
Isaiah 14:11-12- "Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols [stringed instruments like a harp]: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
In Job 38:7 it’s says “When the MORNING STARS sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”
It sounds as though Lucifer was created with the tabrets and pipes in him and was certainly capable of making music. Also hypothetically looking at it as if I were a believer (as I am not, I look at this as I would look at mythology) this could appear that Lucifer was a song maker for the "sons of God" choir.
Furthermore before Satan fell he was described as “the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty” and “He was persuasive enough to convince one-third of the angels to join him in his rebellion” (Revelation 12:4). He was described as perfect in all ways in until iniquity got him.
After he fell it is stated “Even after his fall from heaven, not even Michael the archangel dared to stand up to him without the Lord’s help (Jude 9)”. Now after he fell he didn’t lose the abilities god gave him. So he kept the tabrets and pipes. But is it possible (hypothetical question to believers) that instead of using them to bring glory to God he used them to turn humankind against the creator?
One only has to look at the messages behind much of rap/hip hop and even metal/rock as well to a much lesser degree to find plenty of things promoting “sinful” behavior.
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Jun 28, 2018 5:24:28 GMT
My uncle was a metal head (shortened to just "heads" as they called themselves) and wannabe Satan worshiper along with his garner head buddies. He used to have a saying, "I'd sell my soul for rock and roll." He's dead now, the drugs and drinking did a number on his heart. I like heavy metal and grunge myself but I wouldn't "sell my soul" for it. Maybe modern music is a tool of the devil but I'd question if it is more than any other medium like Hollywood and academia for example.
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Post by AmericanCharm on Jun 28, 2018 7:39:59 GMT
My uncle was a metal head (shortened to just "heads" as they called themselves) and wannabe Satan worshiper along with his garner head buddies. He used to have a saying, "I'd sell my soul for rock and roll." He's dead now, the drugs and drinking did a number on his heart. I like heavy metal and grunge myself but I wouldn't "sell my soul" for it. Maybe modern music is a tool of the devil but I'd question if it is more than any other medium like Hollywood and academia for example. Interesting, yeah Devil Worshippers and Theistic Satanists are generally bad news. They often follow a path of life that just simply no good. I love metal, rock, grunge, all that stuff but I don’t drink alcohol, smoke, or do drugs. I don’t care to indulge in those things. The mythology of Satan is quite interesting and I like some of the Satanic art I have seen. The concept of good and evil is fascinating to me, as is live and death. From a Christian perspective it would make some sense to believe Satan would use this as a tool to brainwash humankind, and to steer individuals in a direction of “evil” and “sin”. As from what I have gathered he very well could be the angel of music. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 7:56:31 GMT
Some people have referred to Metal/Rock music as the Devils music. As a Metal head/rocker I have heard this plenty of times and certain aspects of the music may lead one to have that impression. Some bands sing about Hell and Lucifer. Embracing darker colors and rebellious nature. There are some interesting passages that have caught my interest in the past about Lucifer, his musical abilities, and connection with music. I’d like to hear the opinions of some believers on this subject. Ezekiel 28:13- Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the Diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Tabrets and pipes are musical instruments. Isaiah 14:11-12- "Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols [stringed instruments like a harp]: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! In Job 38:7 it’s says “When the MORNING STARS sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” It sounds as though Lucifer was created with the tabrets and pipes in him and was certainly capable of making music. Also hypothetically looking at it as if I were a believer (as I am not, I look at this as I would look at mythology) this could appear that Lucifer was a song maker for the "sons of God" choir. Furthermore before Satan fell he was described as “the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty” and “ He was persuasive enough to convince one-third of the angels to join him in his rebellion” (Revelation 12:4). He was described as perfect in all ways in until iniquity got him. After he fell it is stated “ Even after his fall from heaven, not even Michael the archangel dared to stand up to him without the Lord’s help (Jude 9)”. Now after he fell he didn’t lose the abilities god gave him. So he kept the tabrets and pipes. But is it possible (hypothetical question to believers) that instead of using them to bring glory to God he used them to turn humankind against the creator? One only has to look at the messages behind much of rap/hip hop and even metal/rock as well to a much lesser degree to find plenty of things promoting “sinful” behavior. Incredible thoughts! Yes, it's very possible to be so. All my colleagues who's listening to black/death metal are almost satanists. They don't sacrifice babies to the altar of the great Dark Angel, but they say that: "We are praying our 'god' in music, but raging themselves out with power chords, and diminished strings. Our flutes and harps are guitars and drums. We destroy this world with this music!". That's what they usually tell. And their thought are bringing me back to the thesis I was discussing here hardly - about the traditions. In 'Revelation' there's a passage that only seven churches will left at the end of our days. Those seven churches are Catholics, Orthodox and Evangelicals, and also the church of Nagarjuna, and LaVeyan satanic church, and also the Church of the Old Testament, and Islam. So, at the end of the days there will be only churches of Arktos members. We can count themselves as chosen ones. The traditions is something that the devil of death fights mostly. He ruins our sane norms, our sane views (on marriage, on gender, on imagine of the human, etc), and he tries to break our norms with some very foxy way. This angel keeps strings be tight... But on last decades we can see something upside down - rock is dead, so the devil, perhaps, in minor now. The star of Islam is rising defeating Satan's chambers of the evil. Allah is punishing Satan's dares. We can join to the party of Satan in all those rainbow mascarades, perverted theaters, and insaned movies. But we also can join our lord Allah to understand the light of true silence. So, for me the traditions seem to be silenced, but Satan's chambers is fulfilled with gore and blood of dark music, and dirty dances. Satan's looking for transformation, because music is something not-material which is able to transform us into an ooze just with a few notes. Pythagoreans were the ones who kneeled before father Satan. Before 'em there were Orphics, and before the last ones - Hermesus the Trismegistus, or Toth (Hermesus himself). Pythagoreans did find that music was the destruction of the world, and they diminished their strings to D, or D# for ruining his followers ears at those concerts. But they had bad producers to light 'em up to stars, and a bunch of drunk philosophers won the battle by appealing to the traditions, trying to calm those metal philosophers down. Plato and Socrates, and also Aristotle tried to call for the good ones, and they voted for Zeus, the god, who was a good economist, good to the traditions, and who tried to close boundaries of evil. There were some aggressive perverts who voted not for Zeus, but for Megera, the old one crazed granny. The followers of Zeus had won the battle, but struggles of the followers of Megera... Those stories are interesting, but I have to end here. Good luck!  |
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jun 28, 2018 8:20:46 GMT
Satan just fallen angel! Shrug
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 8:24:06 GMT
Satan just fallen angel!   |
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Post by AmericanCharm on Jun 28, 2018 9:33:18 GMT
Some people have referred to Metal/Rock music as the Devils music. As a Metal head/rocker I have heard this plenty of times and certain aspects of the music may lead one to have that impression. Some bands sing about Hell and Lucifer. Embracing darker colors and rebellious nature. There are some interesting passages that have caught my interest in the past about Lucifer, his musical abilities, and connection with music. I’d like to hear the opinions of some believers on this subject. Ezekiel 28:13- Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the Diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Tabrets and pipes are musical instruments. Isaiah 14:11-12- "Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols [stringed instruments like a harp]: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! In Job 38:7 it’s says “When the MORNING STARS sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” It sounds as though Lucifer was created with the tabrets and pipes in him and was certainly capable of making music. Also hypothetically looking at it as if I were a believer (as I am not, I look at this as I would look at mythology) this could appear that Lucifer was a song maker for the "sons of God" choir. Furthermore before Satan fell he was described as “the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty” and “ He was persuasive enough to convince one-third of the angels to join him in his rebellion” (Revelation 12:4). He was described as perfect in all ways in until iniquity got him. After he fell it is stated “ Even after his fall from heaven, not even Michael the archangel dared to stand up to him without the Lord’s help (Jude 9)”. Now after he fell he didn’t lose the abilities god gave him. So he kept the tabrets and pipes. But is it possible (hypothetical question to believers) that instead of using them to bring glory to God he used them to turn humankind against the creator? One only has to look at the messages behind much of rap/hip hop and even metal/rock as well to a much lesser degree to find plenty of things promoting “sinful” behavior. Incredible thoughts! Yes, it's very possible to be so. All my colleagues who's listening to black/death metal are almost satanists. They don't sacrifice babies to the altar of the great Dark Angel, but they say that: "We are praying our 'god' in music, but raging themselves out with power chords, and diminished strings. Our flutes and harps are guitars and drums. We destroy this world with this music!". That's what they usually tell. And their thought are bringing me back to the thesis I was discussing here hardly - about the traditions. In 'Revelation' there's a passage that only seven churches will left at the end of our days. Those seven churches are Catholics, Orthodox and Evangelicals, and also the church of Nagarjuna, and LaVeyan satanic church, and also the Church of the Old Testament, and Islam. So, at the end of the days there will be only churches of Arktos members. We can count themselves as chosen ones. The traditions is something that the devil of death fights mostly. He ruins our sane norms, our sane views (on marriage, on gender, on imagine of the human, etc), and he tries to break our norms with some very foxy way. This angel keeps strings be tight... But on last decades we can see something upside down - rock is dead, so the devil, perhaps, in minor now. The star of Islam is rising defeating Satan's chambers of the evil. Allah is punishing Satan's dares. We can join to the party of Satan in all those rainbow mascarades, perverted theaters, and insaned movies. But we also can join our lord Allah to understand the light of true silence. So, for me the traditions seem to be silenced, but Satan's chambers is fulfilled with gore and blood of dark music, and dirty dances. Satan's looking for transformation, because music is something not-material which is able to transform us into an ooze just with a few notes. Pythagoreans were the ones who kneeled before father Satan. Before 'em there were Orphics, and before the last ones - Hermesus the Trismegistus, or Toth (Hermesus himself). Pythagoreans did find that music was the destruction of the world, and they diminished their strings to D, or D# for ruining his followers ears at those concerts. But they had bad producers to light 'em up to stars, and a bunch of drunk philosophers won the battle by appealing to the traditions, trying to calm those metal philosophers down. Plato and Socrates, and also Aristotle tried to call for the good ones, and they voted for Zeus, the god, who was a good economist, good to the traditions, and who tried to close boundaries of evil. There were some aggressive perverts who voted not for Zeus, but for Megera, the old one crazed granny. The followers of Zeus had won the battle, but struggles of the followers of Megera... Those stories are interesting, but I have to end here. Good luck! I could have sworn you were an atheist or agnostic for some reason. Also yeah I wish more people knew the difference between Devil Worshipers, Theistic Satanists, and LaVeyan Satanists. As the differences are huge and especially with LaVeyan Satanists to compare to Devil Worshippers or Theistic Satanists is really incomparable. Many/most LeVeyan Satanists Atheists or Agnostic. Not believing in the entity but believing more in philosophical mindsets like individualism, hedonism, and egoism. As well as self indulgence and self preservation. Unfortunately it’s sort of been hijacked by kids who just want to be edgy and rebel and they don’t actually embrace the philosophy and wisdom. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 13:17:20 GMT
Incredible thoughts! Yes, it's very possible to be so. All my colleagues who's listening to black/death metal are almost satanists. They don't sacrifice babies to the altar of the great Dark Angel, but they say that: "We are praying our 'god' in music, but raging themselves out with power chords, and diminished strings. Our flutes and harps are guitars and drums. We destroy this world with this music!". That's what they usually tell. And their thought are bringing me back to the thesis I was discussing here hardly - about the traditions. In 'Revelation' there's a passage that only seven churches will left at the end of our days. Those seven churches are Catholics, Orthodox and Evangelicals, and also the church of Nagarjuna, and LaVeyan satanic church, and also the Church of the Old Testament, and Islam. So, at the end of the days there will be only churches of Arktos members. We can count themselves as chosen ones. The traditions is something that the devil of death fights mostly. He ruins our sane norms, our sane views (on marriage, on gender, on imagine of the human, etc), and he tries to break our norms with some very foxy way. This angel keeps strings be tight... But on last decades we can see something upside down - rock is dead, so the devil, perhaps, in minor now. The star of Islam is rising defeating Satan's chambers of the evil. Allah is punishing Satan's dares. We can join to the party of Satan in all those rainbow mascarades, perverted theaters, and insaned movies. But we also can join our lord Allah to understand the light of true silence. So, for me the traditions seem to be silenced, but Satan's chambers is fulfilled with gore and blood of dark music, and dirty dances. Satan's looking for transformation, because music is something not-material which is able to transform us into an ooze just with a few notes. Pythagoreans were the ones who kneeled before father Satan. Before 'em there were Orphics, and before the last ones - Hermesus the Trismegistus, or Toth (Hermesus himself). Pythagoreans did find that music was the destruction of the world, and they diminished their strings to D, or D# for ruining his followers ears at those concerts. But they had bad producers to light 'em up to stars, and a bunch of drunk philosophers won the battle by appealing to the traditions, trying to calm those metal philosophers down. Plato and Socrates, and also Aristotle tried to call for the good ones, and they voted for Zeus, the god, who was a good economist, good to the traditions, and who tried to close boundaries of evil. There were some aggressive perverts who voted not for Zeus, but for Megera, the old one crazed granny. The followers of Zeus had won the battle, but struggles of the followers of Megera... Those stories are interesting, but I have to end here. Good luck! I could have sworn you were an atheist or agnostic for some reason. Also yeah I wish more people knew the difference between Devil Worshipers, Theistic Satanists, and LaVeyan Satanists. As the differences are huge and especially with LaVeyan Satanists to compare to Devil Worshippers or Theistic Satanists is really incomparable. Many/most LeVeyan Satanists Atheists or Agnostic. Not believing in the entity but believing more in philosophical mindsets like individualism, hedonism, and egoism. As well as self indulgence and self preservation. Unfortunately it’s sort of been hijacked by kids who just want to be edgy and rebel and they don’t actually embrace the philosophy and wisdom. Yeah, you didn't mistake I'm a skeptical atheist which is 'I don't believe any gods, but it doesn't mean that believers are confused & I hate agnostics'. Kids are always kids. I think it relates to the blood. Their blood is boiling while their minds are melting. What do you think about music as destruction? Does Satan use it to destruct the Earth? Or He tries to show that the most of agnostics are stupid fools? |
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Post by AmericanCharm on Jun 28, 2018 16:54:07 GMT
I could have sworn you were an atheist or agnostic for some reason. Also yeah I wish more people knew the difference between Devil Worshipers, Theistic Satanists, and LaVeyan Satanists. As the differences are huge and especially with LaVeyan Satanists to compare to Devil Worshippers or Theistic Satanists is really incomparable. Many/most LeVeyan Satanists Atheists or Agnostic. Not believing in the entity but believing more in philosophical mindsets like individualism, hedonism, and egoism. As well as self indulgence and self preservation. Unfortunately it’s sort of been hijacked by kids who just want to be edgy and rebel and they don’t actually embrace the philosophy and wisdom. Yeah, you didn't mistake I'm a skeptical atheist which is 'I don't believe any gods, but it doesn't mean that believers are confused & I hate agnostics'. Kids are always kids. I think it relates to the blood. Their blood is boiling while their minds are melting. What do you think about music as destruction? Does Satan use it to destruct the Earth? Or He tries to show that the most of agnostics are stupid fools? I don’t believe in Satan as a entity. If I were to look at it as if I was a believer I would absolutely think that Satan was the angel of music and would use it as a tool to influence humankind and influence them to “sin” and turn against the life God would want them to live. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 17:59:14 GMT
Yeah, you didn't mistake I'm a skeptical atheist which is 'I don't believe any gods, but it doesn't mean that believers are confused & I hate agnostics'. Kids are always kids. I think it relates to the blood. Their blood is boiling while their minds are melting. What do you think about music as destruction? Does Satan use it to destruct the Earth? Or He tries to show that the most of agnostics are stupid fools? I don’t believe in Satan as a entity. If I were to look at it as if I was a believer I would absolutely think that Satan was the angel of music and would use it as a tool to influence humankind and influence them to “sin” and turn against the life God would want them to live. Shame on me, I was confusing the word agnostic with 'plain atheists'... So, I ask an apologize... Have you heard about the term 'egregore'? What do you think, could Satan be just a mental projection, an egregore? There were times I was being talked many times that 'if thousands of people would believe in something, it would appear as something real'. I don't know how true is it, but fear as projection can transform shape of our minds to something concrete. |
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Post by AmericanCharm on Jun 28, 2018 18:45:09 GMT
I don’t believe in Satan as a entity. If I were to look at it as if I was a believer I would absolutely think that Satan was the angel of music and would use it as a tool to influence humankind and influence them to “sin” and turn against the life God would want them to live. Shame on me, I was confusing the word agnostic with 'plain atheists'... So, I ask an apologize... Have you heard about the term 'egregore'? What do you think, could Satan be just a mental projection, an egregore? There were times I was being talked many times that 'if thousands of people would believe in something, it would appear as something real'. I don't know how true is it, but fear as projection can transform shape of our minds to something concrete. Yes I’m familiar with the term. I do believe Satan is an egregore just as many religious figures. I will say this I do believe there is a force beyond our understanding and reasoning that is out there. I believe in evil and good energy. I believe it influences human personality and mindset. But I do believe Heavan/Hell God/Satan are human inventions. In my opinion Hell is the most repulsive invention of the religious people. Its has two purposes. One purpose is to strike fear into people who don't believe as they do. The other is so they can feel good that there is a place to punish the evil and corrupt in a afterlife that they didn’t experience while on earth. Some believers sometimes paint a picture using vivid and disgusting descriptions of Hell. It’s such a dark, dim view of life and shamelessly inventive. The main purpose of Hell is to inflict gratuitous agony on a "sinner" for an eternity. I don’t think there is really anybody that deserves that and especially the people who commit misdemeanor sins that are believed by religious people to have to go to Hell. It’s absolutely evil to subscribe to this belief. I take an openly hostile stance against most religions for this reason and some other reasons as well. I openly say I do not respect your beliefs nor your religion. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 19:54:52 GMT
Shame on me, I was confusing the word agnostic with 'plain atheists'... So, I ask an apologize... Have you heard about the term 'egregore'? What do you think, could Satan be just a mental projection, an egregore? There were times I was being talked many times that 'if thousands of people would believe in something, it would appear as something real'. I don't know how true is it, but fear as projection can transform shape of our minds to something concrete. Yes I’m familiar with the term. I do believe Satan is an egregore just as many religious figures. I will say this I do believe there is a force beyond our understanding and reasoning that is out there. I believe in evil and good energy. I believe it influences human personality and mindset. But I do believe Heavan/Hell God/Satan are human inventions. In my opinion Hell is the most repulsive invention of the religious people. Its has two purposes. One purpose is to strike fear into people who don't believe as they do. The other is so they can feel good that there is a place to punish the evil and corrupt in a afterlife that they didn’t experience while on earth. Some believers sometimes paint a picture using vivid and disgusting descriptions of Hell. It’s such a dark, dim view of life and shamelessly inventive. The main purpose of Hell is to inflict gratuitous agony on a "sinner" for an eternity. I don’t think there is really anybody that deserves that and especially the people who commit misdemeanor sins that are believed by religious people to have to go to Hell. It’s absolutely evil to subscribe to this belief. I take an openly hostile stance against most religions for this reason and some other reasons as well. I openly say I do not respect your beliefs nor your religion. Thank you for your very detailed answer. And I'm sorry for another question. What do you think about of helping the other persons who believes in something? What do I mean, for example there are some good believers who believes in God, and they sick of some disease. And they would want you (or me, or someone else) to become a believer. I think that each of believers want to see someone's taking his side, if this believer loves people (or just this man in example), and he believes that his faith is true. So, to please this believer you (or me, or someone else) need to become a believer to help him. What did you do in such occasion? Would you become a believer to save someone's life? |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 28, 2018 20:09:31 GMT
Satan just fallen angel! Shrug He's also the father of lies. He didn't end forever just by falling Sigh |
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Post by AmericanCharm on Jun 28, 2018 20:16:27 GMT
Yes I’m familiar with the term. I do believe Satan is an egregore just as many religious figures. I will say this I do believe there is a force beyond our understanding and reasoning that is out there. I believe in evil and good energy. I believe it influences human personality and mindset. But I do believe Heavan/Hell God/Satan are human inventions. In my opinion Hell is the most repulsive invention of the religious people. Its has two purposes. One purpose is to strike fear into people who don't believe as they do. The other is so they can feel good that there is a place to punish the evil and corrupt in a afterlife that they didn’t experience while on earth. Some believers sometimes paint a picture using vivid and disgusting descriptions of Hell. It’s such a dark, dim view of life and shamelessly inventive. The main purpose of Hell is to inflict gratuitous agony on a "sinner" for an eternity. I don’t think there is really anybody that deserves that and especially the people who commit misdemeanor sins that are believed by religious people to have to go to Hell. It’s absolutely evil to subscribe to this belief. I take an openly hostile stance against most religions for this reason and some other reasons as well. I openly say I do not respect your beliefs nor your religion. Thank you for your very detailed answer. And I'm sorry for another question. What do you think about of helping the other persons who believes in something? What do I mean, for example there are some good believers who believes in God, and they sick of some disease. And they would want you (or me, or someone else) to become a believer. I think that each of believers want to see someone's taking his side, if this believer loves people (or just this man in example), and he believes that his faith is true. So, to please this believer you (or me, or someone else) need to become a believer to help him. What did you do in such occasion? Would you become a believer to save someone's life? I think a lot of believers do look at things that way that because they care about someone they want them to follow the same faith as them because they believe it is correct, they believe that is how they can be saved. But I would not become a believer to please someone just because they are sick or dying even if I loved them very much. I cannot manufacture faith, and I can’t believe something out of principle. I am either convinced or I am not. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 20:37:05 GMT
I just want to say that I don't recommend using "Lucifer" and "Satan" as synonyms.
Thank you for your attention.
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