Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on May 30, 2018 3:25:42 GMT
I posted an earlier topic asking just what an ethnicity actually is and partly the reason I think about these things is because I come from an American perspective. In America ethnicity is really weird. Most white Americans for example though they look the same from an outside perspective don't consider themselves an ethnic group and really don't have an ethnic identity or ethnic cohesion with one another. I once asked on another forum if white Americans were an ethnic group to test this and almost every single white American that responded said that no they aren't, there are Irish Americans, Polish Americans, WASPs (white Anglo Saxon Protestants), Italian Americans, you name the hyphen they are an ethnic group. They were defining ethnicity by ancestry divorced from culture. Basically in America most Americans identify their ethnicity by descent from a certain ethnic group. I have a book called the Harvard Encyclopedia of American ethnic groups which as it states is a Harvard Encyclopedia dealing with ethnic groups in America and it has tons of sections on Irish Americans, Italian Americans, Polish Americans, the whole list of hyphenations with some American specific ethnic groups like Southerners (which I am), Yankees (by which they mean New England WASPS), Appalachian mountaineers, Amish, Cajuns, Creoles etc. This is wholly different I think than a country like Germany where they obviously know that they are ethnically German because they are of common descent, culture, religion, language, historical memories, and other things in common where in America we've been separated from the colonial era on into regional cultures with vastly different values as shown on the map below with MANY different lines of descent. This is why our far right groups are racial nationalists (white nationalists) because Americans don't think of themselves as a common ethnic group even though a foreigner probably would think of them as an ethnic group. This is just explaining the weird situation in America when it comes to ethnicity. To make a topic out of this I'll ask foreigners, does it look to you like white Americans are an ethnic group and that Americans are just weirdly confused about things? Also a good drinking game is to take a shot every time the words "ethnic group" is said in this post .
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Post by Elizabeth on May 30, 2018 6:03:41 GMT
Well, I have a view on this that might be different from many others. I mean I live in America but I call myself Ukrainian. I do not feel American and wasn't born here. My cousin, on the other hand, was born here and her parents were born in Ukraine and she considers herself Ukrainian American. The ones who I'd consider just American are ones who have no connection to their country anymore and don't know the language nor have any living relatives from it. So after several generations all that they will know anymore will be American.
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Post by Διαμονδ on May 30, 2018 6:10:05 GMT
In Ukraine, the situation is also very complicated. On the one hand, Ukrainians consider all citizens of Ukraine, but the nationalists say that this is a certain group! All others are migrants for them. But they forget that the Ukrainians product of the Stalinist-Soviet Ukrainization of the 30s, when people were not asked about their belonging and just wrote in the passport -Ukrainian-
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Post by Lone Wanderer on May 30, 2018 7:29:30 GMT
Well, I have a view on this that might be different from many others. I mean I live in America but I call myself Ukrainian. I do not feel American and wasn't born here. My cousin, on the other hand, was born here and her parents were born in Ukraine and she considers herself Ukrainian American. The ones who I'd consider just American are ones who have no connection to their country anymore and don't know the language nor have any living relatives from it. So after several generations all that they will know anymore will be American. I really don't understand the logic of people like you. Living in country X, having citizenship, Your life and work is in X, and still writing stuff like: "I'm not X but I'm Y".
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Post by Elizabeth on May 30, 2018 7:53:05 GMT
Well, I have a view on this that might be different from many others. I mean I live in America but I call myself Ukrainian. I do not feel American and wasn't born here. My cousin, on the other hand, was born here and her parents were born in Ukraine and she considers herself Ukrainian American. The ones who I'd consider just American are ones who have no connection to their country anymore and don't know the language nor have any living relatives from it. So after several generations all that they will know anymore will be American. I really don't understand the logic of people like you. Living in country X, having citizenship, Your life and work is in X, and still writing stuff like: "I'm not X but I'm Y". Think of it like this...a female gets a sex change but in reality can't be a male no matter what so surgery doesn't matter. Then has sex with a male and the trans is now pregnant but looks like a male. So just because you move from one thing to the next it doesn't really change who you are Shrug
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Post by Lone Wanderer on May 30, 2018 8:18:01 GMT
I really don't understand the logic of people like you. Living in country X, having citizenship, Your life and work is in X, and still writing stuff like: "I'm not X but I'm Y". Think of it like this...a female gets a sex change but in reality can't be a male no matter what so surgery doesn't matter. Then has sex with a male and the trans is now pregnant but looks like a male. So just because you move from one thing to the next it doesn't really change who you are I know how you feel because it's common among many first generation immigrants and I don't say you should abandon and forget your Ukrainian background. Be like your cousin: Ukrainian American. You're American too, more or less. Actually, ignoring American side of your life means that you're just a guest/foreigner in US. Does being a permanent guest make any sense? And your future kids would identify as American. As much as you like your Ukrainian root, they may avoid it and just stick to their American identity.
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Post by DKTrav88 on May 30, 2018 8:25:17 GMT
Well, I have a view on this that might be different from many others. I mean I live in America but I call myself Ukrainian. I do not feel American and wasn't born here. My cousin, on the other hand, was born here and her parents were born in Ukraine and she considers herself Ukrainian American. The ones who I'd consider just American are ones who have no connection to their country anymore and don't know the language nor have any living relatives from it. So after several generations all that they will know anymore will be American. I really don't understand the logic of people like you. Living in country X, having citizenship, Your life and work is in X, and still writing stuff like: "I'm not X but I'm Y". America was built on immigration, I think this is why people here do this, though this way of identifying oneself in the US is slowly going away. Those who still do it understand history and that when they look back at their roots they realize their ancestors didn’t originate here(the US is a fairly new country comparably). The way I see it is I am American, I was born here, but I have major roots in Germany, Scotland, Ireland, the Netherlands, France, and a few others(going to confirm with a DNA test soon). Those roots are important to my family history. A family in Europe can look at their family history and their roots will be only in their native country most of the time, not much mixing happens because Europe has a much older history than the US.. 500 years ago pretty much only the indigenous people were living in America while Europe’s history goes back centuries before any colonists arrived in America. So it’s just different for current Americans.
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Post by Elizabeth on May 30, 2018 8:26:41 GMT
Lone WandererYes, we call those permanent residents here. They can live as guests forever if they don't want to be citizens. I used to be that but wanted a US passport so they didn't like me being a permanent guest for that in case I decided to fly away by plane or something. So I guess they wanted to feel I won't ditch them as a permanent "guest" with getting a passport so asked me for permanent "citizen". They're tricky like that. Don't trust anyone! XD I hope they can identity as male and female and know the difference. Other than that they can be puerto rican if they want Shrug
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Post by Lone Wanderer on May 30, 2018 8:33:47 GMT
Whoopi Goldberg
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Post by Elizabeth on May 30, 2018 8:37:53 GMT
Yes, but when I visit Ukraine I get a..."Welcome home! You didn't change much at all suprisingly" reply Shrug
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Post by DKTrav88 on May 30, 2018 8:38:00 GMT
Ethnicity by definition includes ancestry. Just saying. Shrug
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Post by Lone Wanderer on May 30, 2018 8:52:35 GMT
Elizabeth DKTrav88Again, I didn't say you MUST ignore your background and ancestors. But living in country X, using and benefiting its resources, and feeling no connection to X, is meaningless for me. If I migrate to USA, American would be a part of my identity for sure. Having American passport and saying I'm not American! I can't accept such logic. End of discussion.
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Post by Διαμονδ on May 30, 2018 8:54:30 GMT
Elizabeth DKTrav88 Again, I didn't say you MUST ignore your background and ancestors. But living in country X, using and benefiting its resources, and feeling no connection to X, is meaningless for me. If I migrate to USA, American would be a part of my identity for sure. Having American passport and saying I'm not American! I can't accept such logic. End of discussion. Well, if a person sees that he is different from the biomass that surrounds him, he has the right to think so! Shrug
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Post by Lone Wanderer on May 30, 2018 9:37:10 GMT
Elizabeth DKTrav88 Again, I didn't say you MUST ignore your background and ancestors. But living in country X, using and benefiting its resources, and feeling no connection to X, is meaningless for me. If I migrate to USA, American would be a part of my identity for sure. Having American passport and saying I'm not American! I can't accept such logic. End of discussion. Well, if a person sees that he is different from the biomass that surrounds him, he has the right to think so! By your logic, you shouldn't be sad and angry of what happens in Europe. Immigrants come to Europe, they want a better life but they don't feel loyalty or any connection to their host. They don't assimilate and integrated because they are different! So don't blame some Muslims for their actions in some European countries. They just want to have their own identity. It's their right. You can't have double standards. Please don't quote my posts or mention/tag me on this thread anymore. My points are clear.
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cvolt
Full Member
Posts: 103
Likes: 139
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Post by cvolt on May 30, 2018 11:00:07 GMT
I consider myself just American. I don't know where my family came from before 1900s and that fits perfectly with American.
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