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Post by Elizabeth on May 21, 2018 4:56:24 GMT
Directions: If you agree with even one thing on the side of theologians then vote theologians. Only vote God if agree with everything on God's side and with nothing on theologians side. God | Theologians/People | God 1 and 2. You must continue in the learning of the Holy Scriptures because THEY are there to make you WISE for receiving salvation in your faith. It's all from God as the profitable doctrine for instruction to correct others and be complete for God. (2 Timothy 3:14-17) (God on authority/creed) Christians must have no authority over each other and live ONLY by Jesus' example in Scripture (Matthew 20:25-28, 1 Peter 2:21)
3. All sinned and fell short of God's glory (Romans 3:23) and only Christ is the example for us (1 Peter 2:21)
4. You're purified by Christ in obeying the truth in the Spirit and are born again (1 Peter 1:22, 23)
5. Fear Him for He can send you to hell (Matthew 10:28) | 1. A. The Scriptures and the Gospels, the Apostolic Church and the early Church Fathers, are the foundation. (Anglican theologians on authority) B. Bible, church fathers, popes, bishops; Seven Ecumenial Councils; Trent, Vatican, and other councils (Catholic theologians on authority) C. The Scriptures, both the Old and New Testaments, along with Sacred Apostolic Tradition. Plus seven Ecumenical Councils. (Orthodox theologians on authority) D. Standards of belief are to be found in the Bible and in the Church's historic Confession of Faith (Presbyterian theologians on authority)
2. A. The Three Creeds, Nicene Creed, Athanasius's Creed, and that which is commonly called the Apostles' Creed, ought thoroughly to be received and believed. (Angican theologians on creed) B. Special focus on Apostles' Creed and Nicene Creed (Catholics and Methodist theologians on creed) C. Scripture with Sacred Apostolic Tradition. Plus the seven Ecumenical Councils. (Orthodox theologians on creed) D. Scripture and in the Church's historic Confession of Faith. (Presbyterian theologians on creed)
3. A. Mary was sinless always (Catholic theologians on Mary) B. Regarded as a model for Christians (Presbyterian theologians on Mary)
4. All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified. after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. (Catholic theologians on Purgatory)
5. Hell may or may not exist (Presbyterian theologians on hell)
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Warnings: 1 Timothy 6:3-5 3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.2 Timothy 4:3-4 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. Matthew 15:9 9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. Note: I was just informed that tapatalk users do not see the side by side chart. Best to look at the website since it mixes it up for you there. :/
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Post by DKTrav88 on May 23, 2018 18:31:38 GMT
DKTrav88 I never said that Scripture is not important! I said that Tradition does not go beyond the Scriptures. those who do not have the right Tradition have their own false traditions. That's why Protestants and neo-Protestants do not have unity .. W ho is the Baptist or Pentecostal saved? Or can an Adventist? Who of them can? Which of these believers has salvation and who is not? “I said that Tradition does not go beyond the Scriptures.” There is no denying that there are doctrines and traditions and commandments of men which are contrary to scripture. “Which of these believers has salvation and who is not?” It is not for us to determine who is and is not saved. It is for God to determine that. Scripture says we must work out our own salvation, not the salvation of others.
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Post by Elizabeth on May 23, 2018 18:40:53 GMT
Yes! This is exactly what happens when people start explaining it and then it leads to man made gods. In religion, it is impossible to be without dogmas. Sola scriptura - this is also a dogma! Shrug Sola scriptura is the way the bible recommends you to do it. It's God's way!
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Post by Elizabeth on May 23, 2018 18:57:29 GMT
Trying to interpret God's will in these confusing times. I mean let's face the facts...these are confusing times. There are a variety of Christian Denominations, along with a variety of other religions which exist all of which saying "we know the truth"....we can throw in a few secular philosophies in order to add further complication The issue of religion and reason, maybe better put "faith" and "reason" considering both complement eachother, stems from a continual fracturing process resulting not just from a deep relativistic perspective but the increase in communication between once seperated cultures. The problem of the 21st century is not just a question of meaning but fundamentally the nature of humanity itself. All the "power" we have amassed in such a quick span of time only led to a simple but even more confusing question: "What do we do now?" This question of how to act inevitably leads to further questions of "where do we come from?", "why are we here?", "Who are we?", etc. All of this happens because with great power comes great boredom. There's no need to try to! It says very clear the will of God for those caring to read. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-6 3 For this is the will of God,your sanctification: that you should abstain from immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 1 Thessalonians 5:18 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. And this is just two things that came to mind. But the will of God is clear and only in the bible. People just don't know where to look Shrug
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Post by Elizabeth on May 23, 2018 19:01:13 GMT
Yes! But this is dogma and traditional in Protestant churches. I wish it was in all protestant churches but sadly it's not in all of them even though God says it should be! "You must continue in the learning of the Holy Scriptures because THEY are there to make you WISE for receiving salvation in your faith. It's all from God as the profitable doctrine for instruction to correct others and be complete for God. (2 Timothy 3:14-17)" I think you voted wrong!
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Post by Διαμονδ on May 23, 2018 20:38:07 GMT
DKTrav88 I never said that Scripture is not important! I said that Tradition does not go beyond the Scriptures. those who do not have the right Tradition have their own false traditions. That's why Protestants and neo-Protestants do not have unity .. W ho is the Baptist or Pentecostal saved? Or can an Adventist? Who of them can? Which of these believers has salvation and who is not? “I said that Tradition does not go beyond the Scriptures.” There is no denying that there are doctrines and traditions and commandments of men which are contrary to scripture. “Which of these believers has salvation and who is not?” It is not for us to determine who is and is not saved. It is for God to determine that. Scripture says we must work out our own salvation, not the salvation of others. Yes, I agree that only the Lord can solve this question! I have always supported this opinion with regard to other Christians and, despite their mistakes, never put before them this reproach, although the Scripture tells us - "The deeds of the flesh are known, they are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, magic, enmity, quarrels, envy, anger, quarrels, disagreements, [temptations,] heresies, hatreds, murders, drunkenness, brutality and the like. you, as before, foretold that those who do so will not inherit the Kingdom of God "(Galatians 5: 19-21).Today, everyone knows that Protestantism has the biggest disagreement, first of all with each other, and then with other Christians. Your remarks that your position is normal and that you are not like the other Protestants are groundless (as in the eyes of other Christians, and in the eyes of non-believers), and on business you can see that you are not different from them ..
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Post by DKTrav88 on May 23, 2018 22:06:29 GMT
“I said that Tradition does not go beyond the Scriptures.” There is no denying that there are doctrines and traditions and commandments of men which are contrary to scripture. “Which of these believers has salvation and who is not?” It is not for us to determine who is and is not saved. It is for God to determine that. Scripture says we must work out our own salvation, not the salvation of others. Yes, I agree that only the Lord can solve this question! I have always supported this opinion with regard to other Christians and, despite their mistakes, never put before them this reproach, although the Scripture tells us - "The deeds of the flesh are known, they are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, magic, enmity, quarrels, envy, anger, quarrels, disagreements, [temptations,] heresies, hatreds, murders, drunkenness, brutality and the like. you, as before, foretold that those who do so will not inherit the Kingdom of God "(Galatians 5: 19-21).Today, everyone knows that Protestantism has the biggest disagreement, first of all with each other, and then with other Christians. Your remarks that your position is normal and that you are not like the other Protestants are groundless (as in the eyes of other Christians, and in the eyes of non-believers), and on business you can see that you are not different from them ..
I think it’s pretty safe to say you do not know the beliefs of every single individual Protestant. What I believe, I can assure you, does not match with many Calvinists, Arminians, Methodists, Anglicans, Adventists, Pentecostalists, Lutherans, Charismatics, and even many Baptists, as I have spoken with many of them and read many of their doctrines and I do not agree with them. I never said my position was “normal”, but have repeatedly stated, as you have, that all denominations disagree with each other and are not unified. So it doesn’t make sense for you to suddenly flip your argument and say I am not different from any of them when you know for a fact that NONE of the denominations are the same. Even still, you ignore what Christ said; He never came to bring unity among the church. This is, and I already shared this scripture before, what He said; Luke 12:51 KJV [51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: If this is not good enough for you, here is another; Romans 16:17-18 KJV [17] Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. [18] For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. And more; John 7:37-43 KJV [37] In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. [38] He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. [39] (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) [40] Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet. [41] Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee? [42] Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? [43] So there was a division among the people because of him. Notice how they use scripture as their authority. If you didn’t know, the word “authority” is a synonym for “scripture”, hence scripture is the authority. I find it odd that you continue to talk about disagreement and unity when the Orthodox Church divided from the Catholic Church because of disagreement and yet here you are blasting Protestants for dividing from and disagreeing with the Catholic Church, the same as the Orthodox Church did. That’s quite hypocritical of you.
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Post by Elizabeth on May 23, 2018 22:33:00 GMT
You must always disagree with what's wrong and teach and correct! That's disagreement within the scripture or on what God said for His people to do but if you only obey God in scripture there won't be quarrels or disagreements. You'll only quarrel amd disagree with Pharisee kinds as Jesus did in order to correct them to follow scripture not their tradition.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 23:11:37 GMT
Scripture is "inspired" by God, with inspiration requiring a human median that gives form to it under the nature of language. "It is profitable" is not an argument of authority but one of quality. Jesus's comments in regards to "it is written" refer also to his own actions as the "word of God" which not just transcended previous writing in the law, but observe the nature of interpretation as extending through the median of man himself with Christ as the Apex of the human condition as a synthesis of God and Man. The reference to the doctrine of man, and correct me if I am wrong, extend to rituals placed by jewish law which placed a burden upon man in the respect they could not transform or change his nature but rather inhibited any form of freedom (we can observe this in the various Jewish customs and laws in the old testament). However certain rituals remained such as the breaking of bread which extend all the way back to Melchizidek, the same priesthood class Jesus is "of the order of". Look again "it is written" is usually followed by a "but..." which observes Jesus as the median and not the writing alone. “with inspiration requiring a human median that gives form to it under the nature of language” And the language only can say one thing, there is only one true interpretation and it isn’t any one denomination or Church that has this one true interpretation. Christ came to bring division, not unity. If God is the word, and the word brings division, are we left with one interpretation? The issue of language is that it is multidimensional and can maintain not just hidden sub-layers but simultaneous metaphorical and literal meanings. The nature of language is strictly a symbolic median where its meaning is derived from the use it observes and this exists through specific frameworks of interpretations. So while X = Y under Z translation/language it may mean X = A under B interpretation/language. One can look at a dictionary to observe the number of relations which compose the definition of an individual word...hebrew to english alone has its issues.
“"It is profitable" is not an argument of authority but one of quality.” This isn’t my argument for authority. The fact that it is God’s word is the argument for authority, God’s word trumps all. What I said is that 2 Timothy 3:16 supports using scripture alone as an authority along with what Christ said “it is written” i.e Christ citing and using scripture as the authority, Christ being God, so God is saying scripture is the authority, not the church down the street, not the Orthodox Church, not the Catholic Church, not theologians, not church fathers, not ecumenical councils, but scripture. You mean this is the evidence?: Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory. Do I have the wrong verse?“The reference to the doctrine of man, and correct me if I am wrong, extend to rituals placed by jewish law which placed a burden upon man in the respect they could not transform or change his nature but rather inhibited any form of freedom (we can observe this in the various Jewish customs and laws in the old testament).” It refers to any doctrine, tradition, or commandment of man that comes from a false interpretation of scripture. “However certain rituals remained” Yes some did, because they were interpreted correctly from scripture. The Pharisees weren’t wrong about everything, they mixed truth with lies just as the devil does, the devil was their father after all. The pharisees interpreted the scriptures as they saw fit and this problem of interpretation is the very same problem of the sola scriptura approach.“Look again "it is written" is usually followed by a "but..." which observes Jesus as the median and not the writing alone.” No, “it is written” is not ‘usually’ followed by a ‘but’. When it is, it IS usually Christ, who is God, telling whomever He is speaking to or about that they are wrong and are not doing what is according to scripture. Matthew 19:3-12
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 23:17:23 GMT
Trying to interpret God's will in these confusing times. I mean let's face the facts...these are confusing times. There are a variety of Christian Denominations, along with a variety of other religions which exist all of which saying "we know the truth"....we can throw in a few secular philosophies in order to add further complication The issue of religion and reason, maybe better put "faith" and "reason" considering both complement eachother, stems from a continual fracturing process resulting not just from a deep relativistic perspective but the increase in communication between once seperated cultures. The problem of the 21st century is not just a question of meaning but fundamentally the nature of humanity itself. All the "power" we have amassed in such a quick span of time only led to a simple but even more confusing question: "What do we do now?" This question of how to act inevitably leads to further questions of "where do we come from?", "why are we here?", "Who are we?", etc. All of this happens because with great power comes great boredom. There's no need to try to! It says very clear the will of God for those caring to read. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-6 3 For this is the will of God,your sanctification: that you should abstain from immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 1 Corinthians 7:Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have relations with a woman.” 2 But since immorality is occurring, each man should have relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.1 Thessalonians 5:18 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. And this is just two things that came to mind. But the will of God is clear and only in the bible. People just don't know where to look
“There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 23:52:12 GMT
In reference to the above an implication can be made that there is a time to look outside scripture...I don't think I was clear.
The first quote observes passion as an inherent part of marriage.
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Post by Elizabeth on May 24, 2018 0:01:24 GMT
In reference to the above an implication can be made that there is a time to look outside scripture...I don't think I was clear. The first quote observes passion as an inherent part of marriage. Where? It never says that. And what you quoted went along with what I quoted. If you want to get then bible says to marry. So there could be a time for that if you wish to take the marriage route. Otherwise there's no time for immortality it says.
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Post by DKTrav88 on May 24, 2018 2:31:47 GMT
“with inspiration requiring a human median that gives form to it under the nature of language” And the language only can say one thing, there is only one true interpretation and it isn’t any one denomination or Church that has this one true interpretation. Christ came to bring division, not unity. If God is the word, and the word brings division, are we left with one interpretation? The issue of language is that it is multidimensional and can maintain not just hidden sub-layers but simultaneous metaphorical and literal meanings. The nature of language is strictly a symbolic median where its meaning is derived from the use it observes and this exists through specific frameworks of interpretations. So while X = Y under Z translation/language it may mean X = A under B interpretation/language. One can look at a dictionary to observe the number of relations which compose the definition of an individual word...hebrew to english alone has its issues.
“"It is profitable" is not an argument of authority but one of quality.” This isn’t my argument for authority. The fact that it is God’s word is the argument for authority, God’s word trumps all. What I said is that 2 Timothy 3:16 supports using scripture alone as an authority along with what Christ said “it is written” i.e Christ citing and using scripture as the authority, Christ being God, so God is saying scripture is the authority, not the church down the street, not the Orthodox Church, not the Catholic Church, not theologians, not church fathers, not ecumenical councils, but scripture. You mean this is the evidence?: Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory. Do I have the wrong verse?“The reference to the doctrine of man, and correct me if I am wrong, extend to rituals placed by jewish law which placed a burden upon man in the respect they could not transform or change his nature but rather inhibited any form of freedom (we can observe this in the various Jewish customs and laws in the old testament).” It refers to any doctrine, tradition, or commandment of man that comes from a false interpretation of scripture. “However certain rituals remained” Yes some did, because they were interpreted correctly from scripture. The Pharisees weren’t wrong about everything, they mixed truth with lies just as the devil does, the devil was their father after all. The pharisees interpreted the scriptures as they saw fit and this problem of interpretation is the very same problem of the sola scriptura approach.“Look again "it is written" is usually followed by a "but..." which observes Jesus as the median and not the writing alone.” No, “it is written” is not ‘usually’ followed by a ‘but’. When it is, it IS usually Christ, who is God, telling whomever He is speaking to or about that they are wrong and are not doing what is according to scripture. Matthew 19:3-12 “If God is the word, and the word brings division, are we left with one interpretation?” Yes there is one true interpretation and that interpretation is quite literally what the scriptures say. So for example, if scripture says Christ is the only mediator between men and God, the only one who can make intercession before the Heavenly Father for us, then we should only be praying in Christ’s name and only to Christ like scripture says as opposed to praying to dead saints, or Mary, or angels. “The issue of language is that it is multidimensional and can maintain not just hidden sub-layers but simultaneous metaphorical and literal meanings. The nature of language is strictly a symbolic median where its meaning is derived from the use it observes and this exists through specific frameworks of interpretations.” I’m not about to doubt God’s omnipotence. He can have His word translated perfectly for all time like scripture says it will be. I’m not gonna sit here and stumble over language barriers when God said His word will be preserved for ever. So whatever language I know right now, which is English, there is at least one bible in English that is His inerrant word. I have that much faith in what He said He would do.
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Post by Διαμονδ on May 24, 2018 7:28:00 GMT
Catholics because they went into schism after 1054. Let us remember that our Lord Jesus Christ compared the Kingdom of Heaven with a seine cast into the sea and seized fishes of all kinds, which, when filled, were dragged ashore and, having set, the good was gathered into vessels, and the bad was thrown out. The net of Christ was thrown wide over the whole of humanity, but very much of what he had seized had to be discarded as unfit. And there remained a small, but precious flock of Christ - Church of Christ. Without the Church, there can be no salvation because it is the pillar and the affirmation of truth.(Epistles to Timothy 3-15) Christ prayed that Christians were one. I already wrote before that the Body has one mind and one head .... therefore there must be one opinion which is from God in the Church.
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Post by Elizabeth on May 24, 2018 8:30:00 GMT
Without the Church, there can be no salvation because it is the pillar and the affirmation of truth.(Epistles to Timothy 3-15) No! Church doesn't save anything! Not even a bug. Only Jesus saves. Acts 4:10-12 10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
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Post by Διαμονδ on May 24, 2018 8:39:21 GMT
Without the Church, there can be no salvation because it is the pillar and the affirmation of truth.(Epistles to Timothy 3-15) No! Church doesn't save anything! Not even a bug. Only Jesus saves. Acts 4:10-12 10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”The Church is what the Lord called for salvation. Церковь - это те кого Бог призвал к спасению.
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