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Post by Elizabeth on May 19, 2018 8:34:26 GMT
There is absolutely no such thing as purgatory. Let's look what happens after we die in CHRONOLOGICAL order. Then if you can beat that show the proof. But chonological order can't be beat.
So here are the steps based on the below verse. 1) death 2) judgement 3) heaven or hell
Proof of numbers 1 and 2 above... Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment
Proof of numbers 2 and 3 above... Revelation 20:11-15 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
So where does purgatory fit? Before death? Before judgement? Or before heaven or hell?
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Post by Elizabeth on May 20, 2018 10:34:17 GMT
ElizabethBut many of the theses of Baptism made by their facepalm theologians .. you can not do without them, for example the fact that babies allegedly do not have faith, but that's another topic. No, I didn't use theologians about baptism. I used what the bible said. I don't want to know what theologians say at all! God made baptism so I just want to know what He says about it in scripture.
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Post by Διαμονδ on May 20, 2018 10:44:32 GMT
I would say this is very limited. Why? Because it turns out that you are looking only for your desires there. This is similar to the Catholics of their faith in Purgatory. Me does not seem to you that you want to know the truth about the baptism. Why? Because it is not profitable for you, because the Baptists if the parishioner doubted their official teaching, then they will not let him into the church any more, and in some cases slander (as has already happened more than once known to me cases) What the Scriptures Say about Baptism? Conception of children is accompanied by a lustful, passionate movement of blood:"Which were (born), not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man ..." (John 1, 13)."... lust, after conceiving, gives birth to sin, and the sin that is made gives birth to death" (James 1:15).To be cleansed of original sin, babies must be born of water and the Spirit; to be baptized: (John 3, 5).Babies should be baptized according to the pre-images: "Eight days from birth, every male child of yours shall be circumcised in your generations ... Uncut man, who does not circumcise his foreskin (on the eighth day), that soul will be destroyed from his people , for he broke my covenant "(Gen. 17, 12-14) (The child himself could not cut himself off, but his punishment was circumcised by the parents, but he punished the baby, he broke the covenant.)"In Him you are circumcised with circumcision not made with hands, uncovering the sinful body of the flesh, circumcision of Christ, being buried with Him in baptism" (Colossians 2, 11-12).(In the Old Testament, circumcision was performed on both adults and babies, and in the New Testament both adults and babies should be baptized.) There the flesh was circumcised with a knife, sins are baptized in the baptism of the Holy Spirit (not circumcised by circumcision)."I do not want to leave you, brethren, in ignorance, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in a cloud and in the sea ... And these were images for us" (1 Cor 10 , 1-6). (The Jews did not leave their babies ashore to wait for the perfect age, but they carried them on their hands, and in the New Testament all should be baptized:"... if anyone is not born of water and the Spirit, he can not enter the kingdom of God" (John 3, 5).By the promises:"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, when I make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah ... And they will no longer teach each other, brother's brother, and say," Know the Lord, "for all will know Me, from small to great, saith the Lord ... "(Jer. 31, 31, 34)."And Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins: and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost: for unto you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are far off, whom the Lord the Lord will call." (Acts 2, 38 -39).(In the Old Testament, babies entered into a covenant with God through circumcision, in the New Testament they must enter through baptism, because in the church, His Lord calls both adults and babies):"Let the children go, and do not let them come to me, for such is the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 19, 14)."They brought infants to Him, too, that He touched them, but the disciples, seeing what they did, forbade them, but Jesus, calling them, said:" Let the children come to me and do not forbid them, for such are the kingdom of God "(Luke 18 , 15.16).Not allowing babies to be baptized, many Protestants are likened to disciples who forbade children to come to Christ. Many Protestants have their own human motives: they consider only themselves worthy to enter the Church of Christ. Babies in their opinion do not understand anything, they do not believe in anything and can not receive the Holy Spirit.But the Lord teaches the babies Himself, and he commanded us to teach them after the baptized, according to the Word of God:"Behold, the days come when ... they will no longer teach a friend of a friend, brother of a brother, and say," Know the Lord, "for everyone will know me, from the least to the greatest" (Jer 31: 34)."Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you" (Matthew 28, 19-20).Among the peoples there must undoubtedly be babies - they should not be included in the animals, until they reach the perfect age. But in different countries, the age of majority is determined by different ways. Question: Who determines the age when a child can start baptism?On the public commandment, which was the preaching of the apostles, for example. ap. Peter at Pentecost, the babies were supposed to be present, according to the commandment:"Blow up a trumpet in Zion(Church), appoint a fast and proclaim a solemn assembly: assemble the people, call the assembly, invite the elders, gather the children and infants" (Joel 2, 15-16).Babies have faith, only they can not express it with the words: "But thou hast brought me up out of the womb, put my confidence in my mother's " (Psalm 21, 10)."At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said: who is greater in the Kingdom of Heaven?" Jesus called the child and set him in the midst of them and said: "I tell you the truth, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, whoever is less, like that child, is more in the Kingdom of Heaven, and whoever will receive one such child in my name receives me, and whoever will seduce one of these little ones who believe in me would be better off if they hanged him a mill the millstone round about the neck, and we drowned it in the depth of the sea "(Matthew 18: 1-6., Mk 9: 36).The parents express the faith of infants as parents; their faith is accepted by the Lord, as the Lord's faith was accepted in healing.Babies are worthy to receive the Holy Spirit and receive the Kingdom of God:"He who does not receive the kingdom of God as a child, he will not enter it.""When the voice of your greeting reached my ears, the infant joyfully entered my belly ... and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit" (Luke 1, 44, 41).(John the Infant still felt the approach of the Lord in the womb and joyfully leapt in. This was a special play, because Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit)."When the high priests and scribes saw the miracles that He created, and the children crying in the temple and saying," Hosanna to the Son of David! ", They became enraged and said to Him," Do you hear what they say? "Jesus says to them:" Yes, do you never You did not read: from the mouth of babies and infants you gave praise. " (Psalm 8: 3, Matthew 21, 15-16).Hence, babies should be baptized because:a) That the Lord Himself teaches them, and after the baptism this learning is filled up by the parents.b) They believe and their faith is filled with the faith of their parents.c) They have the right to receive the Holy Spirit.d) They must be cleansed of original sin, for: "Nothing unclean will enter into it (into the Kingdom of Christ") (Rev 21, 27).e) According to the pre-images.f) According to the promise.g) According to the commandment: "Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he can not enter the Kingdom of God" (who, ie, without exception, adults and babies)."For unto you is the promise and to your children ..." (Acts 2.39).Many Protestants reject the baptism of children on the grounds that they, as it were, do not believe and the text from Mk leads to the proof of this thought. 16, 16: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." In response, you should read verse 16: "and whoever does not believe will be condemned" - and ask them: so the babies are condemned? Then it will be clear that these words of the gospel apply to adults, and not to babies.Based on 1 Cor. 7, 14, they declare that the children are holy without baptism. In this text, an. Paul, first of all, does not consider all children to be holy: there are children and unclean ("otherwise your children would be unclean"). Then the saints here are called baptized children, chosen and entered into a covenant with God (Deuteronomy 7, 6), and not because they are born sinless. From sin, sin is born (James 1:15), so unbaptized children are called unclean.If the children were born saints, then the devil would not settle in them, but we see the opposite:"And they brought him to him." Soon the demoniac saw Him, the spirit shook him, he fell to the ground and lay, letting out foam, and Jesus asked his father: how long ago did this happen to him? "He said: since childhood (Mark 9, 20-21).If children are holy, then why do their Protestants after they baptize? To what age are they holy and where does sin then come from?The expression "such is the kingdom of God" does not mean that children without baptism will enter the Church of Christ, but that we adults should be like children in our faith and non-mildness; They must diminish and accept the kingdom of God in the same way as their children accept.On the contrary, the St. the apostles repeatedly baptized many people and even families in which, no doubt, there were also children:Children perceive Christ better and more worthy of us, for which they set an example for us. Nowhere is it said that children can not be baptized by Dejan. 2, 41 - 3 thousand peopleActs. 10, 48 - House of Cornelius the centurion1 Cor. 1, 16 - Stefanov's houseActs. 16, 14, 15 - House of LydiaActs. 16, 33 - House of the Darkguard (and all his household).Acts. 8; 10, 12 - baptism of massActs. 18, 8 - Crisp and domestic and many of the Corinthians .That is, everyone should be baptized. As for the faith of babies, there are many places in the Old Testament that confirm that they can believe. But for you Elizabeth the Old Testament is not interesting?Yeah??
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Post by Διαμονδ on May 20, 2018 11:47:51 GMT
Frankly speaking, the Bible does not say about Purgatory ... we can call our world Purgatory, but this conditionally.. As for DKTrav88 remarks that he does not need a theologian, I will criticize here too, because a simple sinful person can not say that his understanding of Scripture is true without reference to the experience of the persons of God.(Such people have preserved the Scriptures for us since the time of the apostles) I certainly can understand the position when doubters criticize Christian Traditionalists ... but Protestants use the thesis of -Sola scriptura - and yet they have about 20,000 schisms (different methods of understanding Scripture). Where is the body of Christ? The head for the body gives one mind that everyone knows. 😊 We’ve been through this; you’re putting your trust in men instead of God. You’re relying on the church to tell you what scripture says rather than relying on God to tell you what scripture says. God said He would preserve His word forever, He didn’t say men would. And again you’re lumping all Protestants into one bucket, you have to use Godly discernment before coming to a conclusion about an individual. Generalizing is just pure laziness I agree to the generalization , but this you summarize Catholicism and Orthodoxy when the difference is large and you did not even bother to find out as well as possible. All that the Vatican did after 1054 does not work for Orthodoxy! I said that many Protestant currents use the Lutheran thesis- Sola Scriptura-, while all have different understandings of this Scripture. Is this the work of God? Christ prayed for the Church (which began from the apostles) that they should be one, that is, there must be one teaching and one understanding of Scripture.
The church is the body of Christ. Any body has one head and mind, besides the body can not be invisible or diffuse, it has certain contours and boundaries.
Did you say that you read the King James Bible? But this Bibila came from the Anglican church with which you disagree (although you are also from the reformers) Of course God promised to keep his Word forever, but it must be kept in the church and church people. I will remind you that the King James Bible does not have several chapters and the Old Testament was taken from the Hebrew translation of Masoreta.
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Post by Elizabeth on May 20, 2018 14:56:41 GMT
Circumcision is not the same as baptism. If it was then women can't enter heaven and it would make Jesus a liar if He was supposed to have died for all. But when Jesus said to be born again He thought us of something new and different. And it no longer matters if a man gets circumcised or not.
Galatians 5:6 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
Also I see no babies who can believe in OT or NT. I'd not mind bible verses and to see that the baby used their free will to say they wanted to be baptised.
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Post by Διαμονδ on May 20, 2018 15:26:44 GMT
Circumcision is not the same as baptism. If it was then women can't enter heaven and it would make Jesus a liar if He was supposed to have died for all. But when Jesus said to be born again He thought us of something new and different. And it no longer matters if a man gets circumcised or not. Galatians 5:6 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. Also I see no babies who can believe in OT or NT. I'd not mind bible verses and to see that the baby used their free will to say they wanted to be baptised. Circumcision and the release of Jews (including children) along the seabed are images of a future baptism. We can not judge whether children can believe or not. With age, people underestimate the capabilities of children ... but adulthood - it's like we are adults right and smart, but it's not! But spiritual opportunities are open to any person, regardless of his age. + As I wrote above in the New Testament, when the apostles baptized families, they baptized all at once in the house! -Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 Not the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day that he took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; that they broke my covenant, though I remained in union with them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law in their entrails and write it on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 34 And they shall no more teach each other, brother of the brother, and say, "Know the Lord," for everyone will know me, from the least to the greatest, says the Lord, because I will forgive their iniquities and no longer remember their sins.- Jeremiah -31:31Without Baptism, you can not enter the Church and the Christian religion. Therefore, for centuries, true Christians from the very milk of children have been raised in the Faith in Christ. But now is the difficult time of retreat ....
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Post by Elizabeth on May 20, 2018 15:37:59 GMT
Circumcision is not the same as baptism. If it was then women can't enter heaven and it would make Jesus a liar if He was supposed to have died for all. But when Jesus said to be born again He thought us of something new and different. And it no longer matters if a man gets circumcised or not. Galatians 5:6 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. Also I see no babies who can believe in OT or NT. I'd not mind bible verses and to see that the baby used their free will to say they wanted to be baptised. Circumcision and the release of Jews (including children) along the seabed are images of a future baptism. We can not judge whether children can believe or not. With age, people underestimate the capabilities of children ... but adulthood - it's like we are adults right and smart, but it's not! But spiritual opportunities are open to any person, regardless of his age. + As I wrote above in the New Testament, when the apostles baptized families, they baptized all at once in the house! -Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 Not the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day that he took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; that they broke my covenant, though I remained in union with them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law in their entrails and write it on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 34 And they shall no more teach each other, brother of the brother, and say, "Know the Lord," for everyone will know me, from the least to the greatest, says the Lord, because I will forgive their iniquities and no longer remember their sins.- Jeremiah -31:31Without Baptism, you can not enter the Church and the Christian religion. Therefore, for centuries, true Christians from the very milk of children have been raised in the Faith in Christ. But now is the difficult time of retreat .... Two things. 1) Baptism is only for NT believers. 2) There was no baptism in OT. The Egyptians walked on DRY LAND. You need water to be baptised not air. If anything it was the people on the chariots who got baptised and died. Also...I hope all the babies were taught the bible and said, "Ok, I understand I am a sinner and must repent. I hit my brother because he played with my toy and now after reading the bible I know I am wrong. I believe in Jesus' power to save. I wish to be baptised and to live for him." Must be some baby geniuses in your church then Diamond. But here is when God sent Phillip to a man to teach him bible first and then to baptise him when he agreed to it. Acts 8:26-40 26 Now an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying, “Arise and go toward the south along the road which goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is desert. 27 So he arose and went. And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge of all her treasury, and had come to Jerusalem to worship, 28 was returning. And sitting in his chariot, he was reading Isaiah the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go near and overtake this chariot.” 30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this: “He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 33 In His humiliation His justice was taken away, And who will declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth.” 34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus. And passing through, he preached in all the cities till he came to Caesarea. So I'm glad all the babies were taught the bible then and understood what they were reading enough to say they wanted to get baptised then.
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Post by DKTrav88 on May 20, 2018 15:48:57 GMT
We’ve been through this; you’re putting your trust in men instead of God. You’re relying on the church to tell you what scripture says rather than relying on God to tell you what scripture says. God said He would preserve His word forever, He didn’t say men would. And again you’re lumping all Protestants into one bucket, you have to use Godly discernment before coming to a conclusion about an individual. Generalizing is just pure laziness I agree to the generalization , but this you summarize Catholicism and Orthodoxy when the difference is large and you did not even bother to find out as well as possible. All that the Vatican did after 1054 does not work for Orthodoxy! I said that many Protestant currents use the Lutheran thesis- Sola Scriptura-, while all have different understandings of this Scripture. Is this the work of God? Christ prayed for the Church (which began from the apostles) that they should be one, that is, there must be one teaching and one understanding of Scripture.
The church is the body of Christ. Any body has one head and mind, besides the body can not be invisible or diffuse, it has certain contours and boundaries.
Did you say that you read the King James Bible? But this Bibila came from the Anglican church with which you disagree (although you are also from the reformers) Of course God promised to keep his Word forever, but it must be kept in the church and church people. I will remind you that the King James Bible does not have several chapters and the Old Testament was taken from the Hebrew translation of Masoreta. There are many undeniable similarities between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, though I’ve never said they are exactly the same. One similarity is that both Churches do not use scripture as their final authority. Orthodoxy hold that one must accept the books of canon, which were written and inspired by men, and Catholicism holds that the writings of all of the apostle successors, which are written and inspired by men, are the authority. Not even all Protestant Churches accept the scriptures as the final authority(sola scriptura) i.e. Methodists and Anglicans. It would seem quite obvious that scripture says one thing and one thing only. So, why the denominations of the world have many interpretations is obviously not the work of God, but the work of Satan. Jesus did say, Matthew 7:13-23 KJV [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. [15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. [16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. And when asked if there are few that are saved, Luke 13:23-24 KJV [23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, [24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. Meaning there are few that are saved and there are many that are not, as broad is the way of destruction and narrow is the way of salvation. Point being there aren’t many churches that preach the truth, there are many leading people down the path of destruction. If we go by numbers alone, the Catholic Church is the largest church in the world, and the Orthodox Church is the second largest; it would seem that this is bad news for you. no the KJV was not a product of the Anglican Church nor the Church of England. That’s preposterous. The translators were members of the Church of England, but so what? That means nothing if God said He’d preserve His word forever. Does God not do what He says He will do? If we are to go by your logic here, that means there are no English bibles today that are God inspired; how can this be if God preserved His word forever? Don’t you think God knows all languages? Don’t you think God is all-powerful and all-knowing? God can make anything happen, even things you perceive as impossible or improbable. One would think if God could raise the dead, then surely He can preserve His word in all languages in where His word is written.
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Post by Διαμονδ on May 20, 2018 16:01:27 GMT
Matthew 7:13-23 KJV [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. [15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. [16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. And when asked if there are few that are saved, Luke 13:23-24 KJV [23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, [24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. The bottom line is that I always said that behind any misconceptions lies the spirit of lies and the farther away the lies are amplified. In the history of the church, after the thesis - Sola Scriptura - more heresies arose. You Will Know Them by Their Fruits -+ Parable of the vine!
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Post by Elizabeth on May 20, 2018 16:11:12 GMT
Also the word "household" doesn't mean it has to be a lot of people, it doesn't even have to be people related by blood/marriage, and can be as little as one person! So a household can be be one person (obviously a grown up), can be 2 people like a married couple or siblings or friends who are grown ups, and can be a whole family of parents and all adult children. So an elderly man living alone and if he got baptised it means the whole household was baptised. Children don't run households unless old enough.
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Post by Διαμονδ on May 20, 2018 16:22:53 GMT
Also the word "household" doesn't mean it has to be a lot of people, it doesn't even have to be people related by blood/marriage, and can be as little as one person! So a household can be be one person (obviously a grown up), can be 2 people like a married couple or siblings or friends who are grown ups, and can be a whole family of parents and all adult children. So an elderly man living alone and if he got baptised it means the whole household was baptised. Children don't run households unless old enough. www.bibleonline.ru/bible/eng/44/16/ Read carefully the canonical text!
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Post by DKTrav88 on May 20, 2018 16:25:32 GMT
Matthew 7:13-23 KJV [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. [15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. [16] Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. And when asked if there are few that are saved, Luke 13:23-24 KJV [23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, [24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. The bottom line is that I always said that behind any misconceptions lies the spirit of lies and the farther away the lies are amplified. In the history of the church, after the thesis - Sola Scriptura - more heresies arose. You Will Know Them by Their Fruits -+ Parable of the vine! More heresies arose, sure. But God’s word was preserved nonetheless. I don’t know about you, but if I were in 16th century England I wouldn’t want the Catholic Church shoving Latin down my throat and then the priests telling me what God said. I’d rather open up my Bible and rely on the Holy Spirit to tell me what the Bible says. Put simply, one is man telling you what scripture says, the other is God. Who are you going to trust? Men or God?
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Post by DKTrav88 on May 20, 2018 16:34:39 GMT
Also the word "household" doesn't mean it has to be a lot of people, it doesn't even have to be people related by blood/marriage, and can be as little as one person! So a household can be be one person (obviously a grown up), can be 2 people like a married couple or siblings or friends who are grown ups, and can be a whole family of parents and all adult children. So an elderly man living alone and if he got baptised it means the whole household was baptised. Children don't run households unless old enough. www.bibleonline.ru/bible/eng/44/16/ Read carefully the canonical text!
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Post by Elizabeth on May 20, 2018 16:39:05 GMT
Also the word "household" doesn't mean it has to be a lot of people, it doesn't even have to be people related by blood/marriage, and can be as little as one person! So a household can be be one person (obviously a grown up), can be 2 people like a married couple or siblings or friends who are grown ups, and can be a whole family of parents and all adult children. So an elderly man living alone and if he got baptised it means the whole household was baptised. Children don't run households unless old enough. www.bibleonline.ru/bible/eng/44/16/ Read carefully the canonical text! It doesn't say babies or little kids were baptised in there. Shrug But it does say it's not allowed to baptise if they don't believe and if they don't tell you to baptise them!
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Post by DKTrav88 on May 20, 2018 17:04:29 GMT
Romans 3:4 KJV [4] God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
The church fathers are not God, they are men. The church canon is not God, it was written and inspired by men. The church is not God, it is made up of men and women. Patriarch Kirill is not God, he is a man. Your church pastor is not God, he is a man. The scriptures are inspired by God, not men.
Psalm 116:11 KJV [11] I said in my haste, All men are liars.
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Post by Διαμονδ on May 20, 2018 17:58:23 GMT
Romans 3:4 KJV [4] God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. The church fathers are not God, they are men. The church canon is not God, it was written and inspired by men. The church is not God, it is made up of men and women. Patriarch Kirill is not God, he is a man. Who says he is God? OMG. Your church pastor is not God, he is a man. The scriptures are inspired by God, not men. Psalm 116:11 KJV [11] I said in my haste, All men are liars. Ephesians 4:11 And He appointed some to be apostles, others prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers-God promised not to leave his church and always speaks through it! I wrote a lot about this earlier ...
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