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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 24, 2018 0:16:23 GMT
www.gotquestions.org/apostolic-succession.htmlThe doctrine of apostolic succession is the belief that the 12 apostles passed on their authority to successors, who then passed the apostolic authority on to their successors, continuing throughout the centuries, even unto today. The Roman Catholic Church sees Peter as the leader of the apostles, with the greatest authority, and therefore his successors carry on the greatest authority. The Roman Catholic Church combines this belief with the concept that Peter later became the first bishop of Rome, and that the Roman bishops that followed Peter were accepted by the early church as the central authority among all of the churches. Apostolic succession, combined with Peter’s supremacy among the apostles, results in the Roman bishop being the supreme authority of the Catholic Church – the Pope. However, nowhere in Scripture did Jesus, the apostles, or any other New Testament writer set forth the idea of “apostolic succession.” Further, neither is Peter presented as “supreme” over the other apostles. The apostle Paul, in fact, rebukes Peter when Peter was leading others astray (Galatians 2:11-14). Yes, the apostle Peter had a prominent role. Yes, perhaps the apostle Peter was the leader of the apostles (although the book of Acts records the apostle Paul and Jesus’ brother James as also having prominent leadership roles). Whatever the case, Peter was not the “commander” or supreme authority over the other apostles. Even if apostolic succession could be demonstrated from Scripture, which it cannot, apostolic succession would not result in Peter’s successors being absolutely supreme over the other apostles’ successors. Catholics point to Matthias being chosen to replace Judas as the twelfth apostle in Acts chapter 1 as an example of apostolic succession. While Matthias did indeed “succeed” Judas as an apostle, this is in no sense an argument for continuing apostolic succession. Matthias being chosen to replace Judas is only an argument for the church replacing ungodly and unfaithful leaders (such as Judas) with godly and faithful leaders (such as Matthias). Nowhere in the New Testament are any of the twelve apostles recorded as passing on their apostolic authority to successors. Nowhere do any of the apostles predict that they will pass on their apostolic authority. No, Jesus ordained the apostles to build the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20). What is the foundation of the church that the apostles built? The New Testament – the record of the deeds and teachings of the apostles. The church does not need apostolic successors. The church needs the teachings of the apostles accurately recorded and preserved. And that is exactly what God has provided in His Word (Ephesians 1:13; Colossians 1:5; 2 Timothy 2:15; 4:2). In short, apostolic succession is not biblical. The concept of apostolic succession is never found in Scripture. What is found in Scripture is that the true church will teach what the Scriptures teach and will compare all doctrines and practices to Scripture in order to determine what is true and right. The Roman Catholic Church claims that a lack of ongoing apostolic authority results in doctrinal confusion and chaos. It is an unfortunate truth (that the apostles acknowledged) that false teachers would arise (2 Peter 2:1). Admittedly, the lack of “supreme authority” among non-Catholic churches results in many different interpretations of the Bible. However, these differences in interpretation are not the result of Scripture being unclear. Rather, they are the result of even non-Catholic Christians carrying on the Catholic tradition of interpreting Scripture in accordance with their own traditions. If Scripture is studied in its entirety and in its proper context, the truth can be easily determined. Doctrinal differences and denominational conflicts are a result of some Christians refusing to agree with what Scripture says – not a result of there being no “supreme authority” to interpret Scripture. Alignment with scriptural teaching, not apostolic succession, is the determining factor of the trueness of a church. What is mentioned in Scripture is the idea that the Word of God was to be the guide that the church was to follow (Acts 20:32). It is Scripture that was to be the infallible measuring stick for teaching and practice (2 Timothy 3:16-17). It is the Scriptures that teachings are to be compared with (Acts 17:10-12). Apostolic authority was passed on through the writings of the apostles, not through apostolic succession.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 7:18:25 GMT
It's not a big deal, since Catholic dogmas have been changing and increasing through the history.
Who's leader, who's not?.. It really doesn't matter, because authority of The Traditions let to be things like Bible. Without it, there would be no complete Bible, no Scriptures at all. It is all in power of the Traditions. There's no Bible without the history of its creation; and this history cannot left behind all that important influence of The Traditions by The Fathers.
And yes, Apostles had hierarchy, because it's naturally, and more right position of the one truly Christians, i.e. The Orthodoxy is to continue this tradition and many other which were important to Apostles and which did huge role, without Bible wouldn't be Bible.
So, we even can trash Bible out, because voice of the Church is more, really, more important than some weird text stuff which understands in one places and cultures like holy text, and among another like piece of cake. Bible without the Traditions is absolutely nothing; the empty. That's why we need hierarchy and we have to have authority of Church not of mass of texts. The Church is the one who understands Bible correctly, because The Church is a whole organism, which means - all of us; not just Peter, not only Apollo, not just Eugene, or Suzy, but we're together. So, the Church is the one and the only adequate structure that represents the most straight understanding of Christ ever!
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 27, 2018 7:49:33 GMT
It's not a big deal, since Catholic dogmas have been changing and increasing through the history. Who's leader, who's not?.. It really doesn't matter, because authority of The Traditions let to be things like Bible. Without it, there would be no complete Bible, no Scriptures at all. It is all in power of the Traditions. There's no Bible without the history of its creation; and this history cannot left behind all that important influence of The Traditions by The Fathers. And yes, Apostles had hierarchy, because it's naturally, and more right position of the one truly Christians, i.e. The Orthodoxy is to continue this tradition and many other which were important to Apostles and which did huge role, without Bible wouldn't be Bible. So, we even can trash Bible out, because voice of the Church is more, really, more important than some weird text stuff which understands in one places and cultures like holy text, and among another like piece of cake. Bible without the Traditions is absolutely nothing; the empty. That's why we need hierarchy and we have to have authority of Church not of mass of texts. The Church is the one who understands Bible correctly, because The Church is a whole organism, which means - all of us; not just Peter, not only Apollo, not just Eugene, or Suzy, but we're together. So, the Church is the one and the only adequate structure that represents the most straight understanding of Christ ever! It wouldn’t be a big deal to an atheist. Unfortunately I do not agree. Traditions do not make up the Bible. God promised to preserve His word for all time, God doesn’t lie nor break His promises. So according to scripture what you are saying is incorrect. Nowhere in scripture does it say who is and who isn’t a leader of the apostles, and that is because scripture is the leader. Yes orthodoxy is all about tradition, we know this by now. It isn’t about doctrine or scripture at all. I can’t take you seriously after a statement like you just made, “trash the Bible because the church is more” especially it coming from an atheist. How an atheist can expect anyone to consider his understanding of the Bible and church is comical I must say.
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 27, 2018 8:22:25 GMT
Guys...this can all be ended with what Jesus said to do.
Mark 16:15 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
So we preach only what Jesus preached only. Ok this thread was easy. Shrug
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 8:27:20 GMT
DKTrav88Trying be as more as politely, I tell you that you're telling nonsense. "Traditions do not make up Bible..." - Such nonsense I've never heard since by birthday. How could you just imagine it?.. No, no, wait, I'll tell instead of you: "In the beginning there was Bible. It raised legs and hands and created Universe by 7 days. Then pages got yellow and it want'd to rest on the seventh day..." This solo scriptura is the most dumb thing ever. Q: How would you prove that Bible telling truth? A: Because Bible says it. Q: And what is it saying? A: That its words are truth... Coda... Compare it to: A: This boy's name is John: Q: What makes you think like that? A: Because he said it. or: A: My GF isn't Ok,,, just let me cry,,,leave me alone: Q: Why do you think so? A: Because she said it. Solo Scriptura is Solo Stupida, honestly. Please, don't be angry at me. I don't want to hurt your, or someone else feelings. I made funnies, but it's just for lulz. I'm not going to make you Orthodoxian, or an atheist, or someone else, but I do want you to take my words as advice and think about them. Bible is nothing without traditions, because Bible is being completed after and within traditions; books aren't able to be made by its own
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 8:28:09 GMT
Guys...this can all be ended with what Jesus said to do. Mark 16:15 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. So we preach only what Jesus preached only. Ok this thread was easy. Jesus ate food or not?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 27, 2018 8:30:15 GMT
DKTrav88Trying be as more as politely, I tell you that you're telling nonsense. "Traditions do not make up Bible..." - Such nonsense I've never heard since by birthday. How could you just imagine it?.. No, no, wait, I'll tell instead of you: "In the beginning there was Bible. It raised legs and hands and created Universe by 7 days. Then pages got yellow and it want'd to rest on the seventh day..." This solo scriptura is the most dumb thing ever. Q: How would you prove that Bible telling truth? A: Because Bible says it. Q: And what is it saying? A: That its words are truth... Coda... Compare it to: A: This boy's name is John: Q: What makes you think like that? A: Because he said it. or: A: My GF isn't Ok,,, just let me cry,,,leave me alone: Q: Why do you think so? A: Because she said it. Solo Scriptura is Solo Stupida, honestly. Please, don't be angry at me. I don't want to hurt your, or someone else feelings. I made funnies, but it's just for lulz. I'm not going to make you Orthodoxian, or an atheist, or someone else, but I do want you to take my words as advice and think about them. Bible is nothing without traditions, because Bible is being completed after and within traditions; books aren't able to be made by its own Lolol again I cannot take anything you say seriously. There isn’t a point in having a discussion with you about this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 8:33:16 GMT
DKTrav88 Trying be as more as politely, I tell you that you're telling nonsense. "Traditions do not make up Bible..." - Such nonsense I've never heard since by birthday. How could you just imagine it?.. No, no, wait, I'll tell instead of you: "In the beginning there was Bible. It raised legs and hands and created Universe by 7 days. Then pages got yellow and it want'd to rest on the seventh day..." This solo scriptura is the most dumb thing ever. Q: How would you prove that Bible telling truth? A: Because Bible says it. Q: And what is it saying? A: That its words are truth... Coda... Compare it to: A: This boy's name is John: Q: What makes you think like that? A: Because he said it. or: A: My GF isn't Ok,,, just let me cry,,,leave me alone: Q: Why do you think so? A: Because she said it. Solo Scriptura is Solo Stupida, honestly. Please, don't be angry at me. I don't want to hurt your, or someone else feelings. I made funnies, but it's just for lulz. I'm not going to make you Orthodoxian, or an atheist, or someone else, but I do want you to take my words as advice and think about them. Bible is nothing without traditions, because Bible is being completed after and within traditions; books aren't able to be made by its own Lolol again I cannot take anything you say seriously. There isn’t a point in having a discussion with you about this. Ok, let's be serious. Do you think Bible has been appeared from nothing?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 27, 2018 8:39:56 GMT
Lolol again I cannot take anything you say seriously. There isn’t a point in having a discussion with you about this. Ok, let's be serious. Do you think Bible has been appeared from nothing? I’m not going to have a discussion with you. Sorry. You’ve already demonstrated that it isn’t worth my time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 8:42:57 GMT
Ok, let's be serious. Do you think Bible has been appeared from nothing? I’m not going to have a discussion with you. Sorry. You’ve already demonstrated that it isn’t worth my time. Oh, thank you for your explanations. As soon as the theme about proof of Bible raises protestants vanish away. Yeah, friend. Good luck. Don't waste on time on me, go read Bible.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 27, 2018 8:44:06 GMT
I’m not going to have a discussion with you. Sorry. You’ve already demonstrated that it isn’t worth my time. Oh, thank you for your explanations. As soon as the theme about proof of Bible raises protestants vanish away. Yeah, friend. Good luck. Don't waste on time on me, go read Bible. “Yeah, friend. Good luck. Don't waste on time on me, go read Bible.” Smartest thing I’ve ever seen you say.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 8:47:51 GMT
Oh, thank you for your explanations. As soon as the theme about proof of Bible raises protestants vanish away. Yeah, friend. Good luck. Don't waste on time on me, go read Bible. “Yeah, friend. Good luck. Don't waste on time on me, go read Bible.” Smartest thing I’ve ever seen you say. Why don't you go to hell the world, and take a seat for reading Bible until you're be dead? It would be the cleverest step, if you're love of Bible is so huge?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 27, 2018 9:00:25 GMT
“Yeah, friend. Good luck. Don't waste on time on me, go read Bible.” Smartest thing I’ve ever seen you say. Why don't you go to hell the world, and take a seat for reading Bible until you're be dead? It would be the cleverest step, if you're love of Bible is so huge? tell*? I try to talk about the Bible with anyone who wants to hear about it. I don’t talk to people about the Bible who want to attack what I believe about it or who don’t want to listen. If someone claims to be a Christian I will listen to what they believe, but I refer to scripture as the authority, and so if what they believe contradicts what scripture says, I let them know that they are wrong while showing them what the Bible says
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 9:04:53 GMT
Why don't you go to hell the world, and take a seat for reading Bible until you're be dead? It would be the cleverest step, if you're love of Bible is so huge? tell*? I try to talk about the Bible with anyone who wants to hear about it. I don’t talk to people about the Bible who want to attack what I believe about it or who don’t want to listen. Oh, what a turn?! If you want talk about Bible or something else, welcome into the world that has its own rules, and what has been built on traditions, not on Bible. That's what I've said you in the very first time. None cares what Bible's blambling. (I've read it; it's completed nonsense without the historical and cultural contexts.)
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 27, 2018 9:07:23 GMT
Guys...this can all be ended with what Jesus said to do. Mark 16:15 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. So we preach only what Jesus preached only. Ok this thread was easy. Jesus ate food or not? Yes, because He came to be human too except 40 days that He didn't eat. But what does eating have to do with preaching?
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