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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 7:58:49 GMT
www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/johns-story-why-i-left-eastern-orthodoxy-for-evangelicalism/“I would have caved had I not begun reading the Bible the Baptists had given me,” John says with a smile. “As I began reading Scripture, I understood Jesus to be the only way to God. I realized I did not need the Orthodox church or even a priest to be my mediator, for Jesus was the mediator between me and the Father.” Though John does not use the term, it is clear from his testimony that he had acquired an unshakable belief in the Reformation doctrine of sola scriptura. “I realized that the Bible was the authority, even over the Church. The Bible was true, and the Church with all its traditions and rituals was wrong.” What do those who are members of the Orthodox Church think of this and the rest of what is said in the article?
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 18:51:01 GMT
A person who says that she does not need Tradition to understand the Bible should find the answer to this question ElizabethEasy. Tradition can separate us from God's word if we are not careful Jesus said. Mark 7 9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.” They got in trouble by Jesus :(
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 18:52:50 GMT
That would make it weird. Basically He would be blaspheming and calling Himself God then if being an angel though right? Because of these verses. John 10:30 30 I and My Father are one.” And this bottom verse when He says to obey Him. Shouldn't we obey God not something else? And why does an archangel have full power in heaven and on earth then? Is God on vacation or gave up His job? XD Matthew 28:18-20 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. That is taking it a bit far imo. It would be blasphemous for another to say so if it were not true. I am simply stating God called himself a Son of Man on Earth, and in heaven depending on peoples awareness and faith in him they may identify him as a divine being am simply stating he may then call himself an Archangel. Insinuating he is above angels. I understand I may be the only one on this forum with this belief and understanding. You can't just ignore the similarities between the two. I only listed 5. It is common for people to immediately be ridiculed for having noticed the scripture that makes them sound identical The dead will be raised. The dead in Christ will be raised. The voice.. with the Trump of God. The dead will hear their voices. I know Jesus is not a created being and is GOD, but I also believe that God speaks to you according to your understanding, and willing to do works before your eyes according to your faith. Yeah will need to figure out how that works still since angels can't raise the dead hmm I'll look more into it to find more verses but angels are fairly weak to God.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 19:03:03 GMT
That is taking it a bit far imo. It would be blasphemous for another to say so if it were not true. I am simply stating God called himself a Son of Man on Earth, and in heaven depending on peoples awareness and faith in him they may identify him as a divine being am simply stating he may then call himself an Archangel. Insinuating he is above angels. I understand I may be the only one on this forum with this belief and understanding. You can't just ignore the similarities between the two. I only listed 5. It is common for people to immediately be ridiculed for having noticed the scripture that makes them sound identical The dead will be raised. The dead in Christ will be raised. The voice.. with the Trump of God. The dead will hear their voices. I know Jesus is not a created being and is GOD, but I also believe that God speaks to you according to your understanding, and willing to do works before your eyes according to your faith. Yeah will need to figure out how that works still since angels can't raise the dead hmm I'll look more into it to find more verses but angels are fairly weak to God. Here’s a couple for starters, 1 Timothy 3:16 KJV [16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. John 1:14 KJV [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. How could Jesus be God and Michael at the same time? I’d me more inclined to believe it if scripture flat out said something like “And Jesus is the manifestation of Michael the Arch angel and of God in the flesh”, but nowhere does scripture ever even hint at that being a possibility. Ephesians 4:14 KJV [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 21, 2018 19:04:51 GMT
ElizabethI'm disappointed greatly! :( This is not an answer to my question. Maybe DKTrav88 knows this!
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 19:06:01 GMT
Yeah will need to figure out how that works still since angels can't raise the dead hmm I'll look more into it to find more verses but angels are fairly weak to God. Here’s a couple for starters, 1 Timothy 3:16 KJV [16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. John 1:14 KJV [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. How could Jesus be God and Michael at the same time? I’d me more inclined to believe it if scripture flat out said something like “And Jesus is the manifestation of Michael the Arch angel and of God in the flesh”, but nowhere does scripture ever even hint at that being a possibility. Ephesians 4:14 KJV [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; I know those I meant I wanted to find verses only that mention Michael since I focused on Jesus not angels when reading. So want to make a compare and contrast thingy basically between them both.
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 19:06:52 GMT
ElizabethI'm disappointed greatly! :( This is not an answer to my question. Maybe DKTrav88 knows this! I used the answer God gave. Which answer did you want? O.o
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 19:07:28 GMT
ElizabethI'm disappointed greatly! :( This is not an answer to my question. Maybe DKTrav88 knows this! Make your question more clear, I’m not sure what you’re asking
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Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 21, 2018 19:12:33 GMT
Elizabeth If you follow only the scriptures, then who is the author of the prophecy about 30 silver monet? Jeremiah or Zechariah?
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 19:13:18 GMT
No you asked about traditions!
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 19:16:32 GMT
No you asked about traditions! A person who says that she does not need Tradition to understand the Bible should find the answer to this question Elizabeth
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 19:19:04 GMT
Elizabeth If you follow only the scriptures, then who is the author of the prophecy about 30 silver monet? Jeremiah or Zechariah? Why does this matter? Make your point
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Post by just10sp on Apr 21, 2018 19:21:50 GMT
Yeah will need to figure out how that works still since angels can't raise the dead hmm I'll look more into it to find more verses but angels are fairly weak to God. Here’s a couple for starters, 1 Timothy 3:16 KJV [16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. John 1:14 KJV [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. How could Jesus be God and Michael at the same time? I’d me more inclined to believe it if scripture flat out said something like “And Jesus is the manifestation of Michael the Arch angel and of God in the flesh”, but nowhere does scripture ever even hint at that being a possibility. Ephesians 4:14 KJV [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Here’s a couple for starters, 1 Timothy 3:16 KJV [16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. John 1:14 KJV [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. How could Jesus be God and Michael at the same time? I’d me more inclined to believe it if scripture flat out said something like “And Jesus is the manifestation of Michael the Arch angel and of God in the flesh”, but nowhere does scripture ever even hint at that being a possibility. Ephesians 4:14 KJV [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; I know those I meant I wanted to find verses only that mention Michael since I focused on Jesus not angels when reading. So want to make a compare and contrast thingy basically between them both. Again, The Lord, uses the voice of an Archangel, after descending, to declare the trump of God. So there is some indication already in the use of the two words being described God/Jesus on his return. Striving for an understanding of God is not leaning towards your own understanding, it is what everyone who follows God does. We do our best, if I was on another forum with people who agreed suddenly it is not my own understanding, so that does not necessarily apply to me. I am happy in my placement, I don't want this to distance us as friends and fellow neighbours. I feel like it may cause distress on your part to try and fix and imply your understanding onto mine and it is not going to get you anywhere ;p Thanks for the help anyway As for Elizabeth thanks for giving it some consideration. I'm surprised XD I would just stick to your own belief that you have already! Your further ahead than me for sure^^
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 21, 2018 19:27:17 GMT
Why does this matter? Make your point I think he's trying to talk about the words in the book of Zechariah. Which God spoke about. So if he's asking who spoke of the 30 silver coins then it was God. If they said what God didn't say then it was the human who said it. Shrug I don't get the question
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Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 21, 2018 19:33:21 GMT
Here’s a couple for starters, 1 Timothy 3:16 KJV [16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. John 1:14 KJV [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. How could Jesus be God and Michael at the same time? I’d me more inclined to believe it if scripture flat out said something like “And Jesus is the manifestation of Michael the Arch angel and of God in the flesh”, but nowhere does scripture ever even hint at that being a possibility. Ephesians 4:14 KJV [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; I know those I meant I wanted to find verses only that mention Michael since I focused on Jesus not angels when reading. So want to make a compare and contrast thingy basically between them both. Again, The Lord, uses the voice of an Archangel, after descending, to declare the trump of God. So there is some indication already in the use of the two words being described God/Jesus on his return. Striving for an understanding of God is not leaning towards your own understanding, it is what everyone who follows God does. We do our best, if I was on another forum with people who agreed suddenly it is not my own understanding, so that does not necessarily apply to me. I am happy in my placement, I don't want this to distance us as friends and fellow neighbours. I feel like it may cause distress on your part to try and fix and imply your understanding onto mine and it is not going to get you anywhere ;p Thanks for the help anyway As for Elizabeth thanks for giving it some consideration. I'm surprised XD I would just stick to your own belief that you have already! Your further ahead than me for sure^^ You’re basing that belief on one verse and that one verse doesn’t even say Jesus is the archangel, it says “Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel” “With the voice of the archangel”, not “as the archangel”. To say it’s saying Jesus is the archangel is quite a stretch, it’s really grasping at the straws. Ephesians 4:14 KJV [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; I’d say you’ve fallen victim to man’s deceit. Sola scriptura; if scripture does not literally say Jesus is the archangel, then He isn’t the archangel. And no I am not saying all scripture is to be taken literally, there is obviously metaphor, I would then ask you to show me a metaphor that supports the belief that Jesus is the archangel.
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Post by just10sp on Apr 21, 2018 20:04:45 GMT
DKTrav88 Well seeing as you did not read the site I had sent you, you missed all the supporting evidence. People really are quick to judge who has fallen to man's deceit it seems, like I am easy prey, a victim, hence not being able to see the real truth. As of right not, you have not looked at both sides. I suggest you do before you box everyone with this belief as a victim. There is tons of suggesting evidence, that may make you a little more open to at least people having this belief. At best it is a small error. For others it is a bigger one. I have debated this topic before and it has never gotten anywhere, no one is open to evidence, and I have already made my affirmation. I suggested leaving it for another time but instead you inadvertently offended me anyways all is well my friend, have a good one, I hope this doesn't effect later conversations we have and how you think of me as a person. I have noticed you're a very educated Chrstian. Probably have been for some years.
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