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Post by Διαμονδ on Mar 26, 2018 22:38:53 GMT
What parts of the Bible do you find most interesting? It does not matter whether you are a Christian or not ... But many of us have read and know the Bible story!
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 30, 2018 5:19:46 GMT
To further support the Nephilim being giants I give you this verse from Numbers where the Jewish scouts went into to Cannan and came back terrified of what they saw. Numbers 13:33 biblehub.com/numbers/13-33.htm We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them." This is consistent with the part of Genesis six that says The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward. There were Nephilim even after the flood in Canann.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Mar 30, 2018 5:28:19 GMT
In the New Testament, sons of God are believers in Christ, not angels. How do you account for this? Also, the book of Enoch is not a part of biblical canon, so why is it considered an authority document to you? Do believers in Christ produce giant offspring that become the legendary heroes of old when they mate with normal people? And you misunderstand what I mean when I talk about the book of Enoch. The book of Enoch is not authoritative, it is not God breathed, but it illustrates perfectly what the Jews believed about the verses in question and the Nephilim and who the Sons of God were. The Jews knew them to be angels. Jesus had not come yet in the old testament so saying that the sons of God as mentioned in this verse are the same as in the New Testament makes no sense and again followers of Jesus do not have superhuman giant offspring when they mate with nonbelievers. What this verse meant was quite obvious to the Jews it was written to and they understood the sons of God or the "sons of the Elohim" quite clearly to be angels. It should also be stated that the meaning of the Hebrew world Nephilim has been debated but the conflicting ideas of what it means are very telling. On one side some scholars think it simply means giant. Others think it means fallen ones. So either they're giants (which are how the Jews thought of them) or they are fallen ones, the sons of fallen angels. Either way this doesn't jive with "followers of Jesus" at all. So the Jews are the authority? John 1:12 KJV [12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: So God gave those who received Christ the power to become angels? Can you support this with other scripture?
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
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Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
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Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 30, 2018 5:37:48 GMT
Do believers in Christ produce giant offspring that become the legendary heroes of old when they mate with normal people? And you misunderstand what I mean when I talk about the book of Enoch. The book of Enoch is not authoritative, it is not God breathed, but it illustrates perfectly what the Jews believed about the verses in question and the Nephilim and who the Sons of God were. The Jews knew them to be angels. Jesus had not come yet in the old testament so saying that the sons of God as mentioned in this verse are the same as in the New Testament makes no sense and again followers of Jesus do not have superhuman giant offspring when they mate with nonbelievers. What this verse meant was quite obvious to the Jews it was written to and they understood the sons of God or the "sons of the Elohim" quite clearly to be angels. It should also be stated that the meaning of the Hebrew world Nephilim has been debated but the conflicting ideas of what it means are very telling. On one side some scholars think it simply means giant. Others think it means fallen ones. So either they're giants (which are how the Jews thought of them) or they are fallen ones, the sons of fallen angels. Either way this doesn't jive with "followers of Jesus" at all. So the Jews are the authority? That's an incredibly weak retort. No, but the Old Testament was originally written to the Jews as their Holy book, in their language, and for their understanding. The Jews would have understood what the sons of God meant far better than you or I. And how they seemed to understand it was that angels lusted after humans before the flood, came down and took many of them as their wives committing a great sin in doing so, had children which were giant in stature that were the heroes written about in the old tales. God punished man for this by reducing their lives to 120 years and this seems to be part of the reason God brought the great flood. Also you didn't adress my other point being that if the sons of God meant followers of Jesus why did their kids with nonbelievers produce giants a fact also backed up by numbers 13:33.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Mar 30, 2018 5:42:45 GMT
So the Jews are the authority? That's an incredibly weak retort. No, but the Old Testament was originally written to the Jews as their Holy book, in their language, and for their understanding. The Jews would have understood what the sons of God meant far better than you or I. And how they seemed to understand it was that angels lusted after humans before the flood, came down and took many of them as their wives committing a great sin in doing so, had children which were giant in stature that were the heroes written about in the old tales. God punished man for this by reducing their lives to 120 years and this seems to be part of the reason God brought the great flood. Also you didn't adress my other point being that if the sons of God meant followers of Jesus why did their kids with nonbelievers produce giants a fact also backed up by numbers 13:33. So you’re saying the Jews who wrote the book of Enoch understand what God’s word says better than you and I. Well then that would make them your authority. Do you know what that’s called? That’s called a cult. I did address your point by asking a question.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
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Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
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Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 30, 2018 5:44:26 GMT
Again to reiterate the fact that the Nephilim were giants here's an explanation of what the word means by a scholar of Hebrew and Semetic languages in him debunking Zachariah Sitchin's translation of fallen one. www.sitchiniswrong.com/nephilim/nephilim.htm The Nephilim were clearly giants.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Mar 30, 2018 5:46:27 GMT
Again to reiterate the fact that the Nephilim were giants here's an explanation of what the word means by a scholar of Hebrew and Semetic languages in him debunking Zachariah Sitchin's translation of fallen one. www.sitchiniswrong.com/nephilim/nephilim.htm The Nephilim were clearly giants. I never said nephilim weren’t giants, I’m pretty sure we are talking about the sons of God.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 30, 2018 5:50:00 GMT
That's an incredibly weak retort. No, but the Old Testament was originally written to the Jews as their Holy book, in their language, and for their understanding. The Jews would have understood what the sons of God meant far better than you or I. And how they seemed to understand it was that angels lusted after humans before the flood, came down and took many of them as their wives committing a great sin in doing so, had children which were giant in stature that were the heroes written about in the old tales. God punished man for this by reducing their lives to 120 years and this seems to be part of the reason God brought the great flood. Also you didn't adress my other point being that if the sons of God meant followers of Jesus why did their kids with nonbelievers produce giants a fact also backed up by numbers 13:33. So you’re saying the Jews who wrote the book of Enoch understand what God’s word says better than you and I. Well then that would make them your authority. Do you know what that’s called? That’s called a cult. Ok Genius, you tell me what this verse means. Are you going to tell me how Jesus's followers harnessed the power of the yellow sun of the earth like freaking superman to impregnate with their super powered sperm a bunch of unbelievers (which is frowned upon by the Bible last time I checked) and had giant offspring who became the heroes of the ancient world. None of what you're saying makes any sense.
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 30, 2018 5:57:58 GMT
Ok. I'll just use one verse. God explains His people are the sons of God.
Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
Giants were just people. Like Golaith. Just tall. Not angel. I even thought a school staff member was a giant before. He had to bend walking into buildings if he didn't want to get hit in the head. Literally like twice my height. I was scared...
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Post by DKTrav88 on Mar 30, 2018 5:59:37 GMT
So you’re saying the Jews who wrote the book of Enoch understand what God’s word says better than you and I. Well then that would make them your authority. Do you know what that’s called? That’s called a cult. Ok Genius, you tell me what this verse means. Are you going to tell me how Jesus's followers harnessed the power of the yellow sun of the earth like freaking superman to impregnate with their super powered sperm a bunch of unbelievers (which is frowned upon by the Bible last time I checked) and had giant offspring who became the heroes of the ancient world. None of what you're saying makes any sense. you’re being ridiculous now. What I am saying doesn’t make sense to you because you’re stuck on a presupposition that comes from a book that isn’t biblical canon written by some Jews who you believe know what God’s word means better than you and I. Relying on them to interpret God’s word for you is a cult, there’s no getting around that. It’s no different than going to an imam and asking him to tell you what the Quran says; you’re relying on man to give you God’s word and in this case your gurus are dead Jews. Maybe it had never crossed your mind, but perhaps the Bible you are using is corrupt. The devil has been trying to change whst God said since the garden of eden after all, why wouldn’t he be doing it today and doing it today by any and all means?
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 30, 2018 6:09:47 GMT
Ok. I'll just use one verse. God explains His people are the sons of God. Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Giants were just people. Like Golaith. Just tall. Not angel. I even thought a school staff member was a giant before. He had to bend walking into buildings if he didn't want to get hit in the head. Literally like twice my height. I was scared... beginningandend.com/nephilim-giants-bible/ This link goes into the Hebrew meaning of the sons of God. It denotes heavenly beings and when it is used elsewhere in the old testament it again denotes heavenly beings.
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 30, 2018 6:12:32 GMT
Ok Genius, you tell me what this verse means. Are you going to tell me how Jesus's followers harnessed the power of the yellow sun of the earth like freaking superman to impregnate with their super powered sperm a bunch of unbelievers (which is frowned upon by the Bible last time I checked) and had giant offspring who became the heroes of the ancient world. None of what you're saying makes any sense. you’re being ridiculous now. What I am saying doesn’t make sense to you because you’re stuck on a presupposition that comes from a book that isn’t biblical canon written by some Jews who you believe know what God’s word means better than you and I. Relying on them to interpret God’s word for you is a cult, there’s no getting around that. It’s no different than going to an imam and asking him to tell you what the Quran says; you’re relying on man to give you God’s word and in this case your gurus are dead Jews. Maybe it had never crossed your mind, but perhaps the Bible you are using is corrupt. The devil has been trying to change whst God said since the garden of eden after all, why wouldn’t he be doing it today and doing it today by any and all means? www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+2%3A1&version=KJV Job 2:1 2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. The sons of God are clearly angels.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Mar 30, 2018 6:14:02 GMT
you’re being ridiculous now. What I am saying doesn’t make sense to you because you’re stuck on a presupposition that comes from a book that isn’t biblical canon written by some Jews who you believe know what God’s word means better than you and I. Relying on them to interpret God’s word for you is a cult, there’s no getting around that. It’s no different than going to an imam and asking him to tell you what the Quran says; you’re relying on man to give you God’s word and in this case your gurus are dead Jews. Maybe it had never crossed your mind, but perhaps the Bible you are using is corrupt. The devil has been trying to change whst God said since the garden of eden after all, why wouldn’t he be doing it today and doing it today by any and all means? www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+2%3A1&version=KJV Job 2:1 2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. The sons of God are clearly angels. Wait, so men cannot present themselves before God?
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
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Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
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Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 30, 2018 6:14:26 GMT
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Mar 30, 2018 6:17:26 GMT
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 30, 2018 6:20:14 GMT
Ok. I'll just use one verse. God explains His people are the sons of God. Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Giants were just people. Like Golaith. Just tall. Not angel. I even thought a school staff member was a giant before. He had to bend walking into buildings if he didn't want to get hit in the head. Literally like twice my height. I was scared... beginningandend.com/nephilim-giants-bible/ This link goes into the Hebrew meaning of the sons of God. It denotes heavenly beings and when it is used elsewhere in the old testament it again denotes heavenly beings. Yes, the Anak people God made giant. He then destroyed them as well. Angels however when they would appear would have the appearance of normal men most of the time as in height. Here's one example of many. Joshua 5. 13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? 14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant? 15 And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so. Also it was Joshua himself who killed off the offspring of the Anakin giants. Joshua 11:22 No Anakites were left in Israelite territory; only in Gaza, Gath and Ashdod did any survive. Here's how we know Anakites are Anak. Joshua 15:14 14 From Hebron Caleb drove out the three Anakites—Sheshai, Ahiman and Talmai, the sons of Anak. So if the giants were angels...how can a human (Joshua) kill them? Angels are more powerful than us
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