Ponderer
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Post by Ponderer on Feb 23, 2018 21:43:53 GMT
Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us in knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22). This statement in the Genesis account demonstrates the plurality, or Trinitarian nature of God. Notice the pronoun: “like one of Us”.
(The above I found on a Christian website)
Or is it that "Us" refers to God and his alter-ego Satan. God has mastery over the evil side of his nature and makes it his servant? Are we not just the same as God, having our evil side? But is it not true that many of us fail to control our evil side - which often controls us? Jesus was tempted by his evil side and overcame it?
Would this not explain the mixture of beauty and cruelty found throughout the natural world as well as our human world?
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Post by joustos on Mar 16, 2018 23:40:28 GMT
This topic has already been discussed on the forum! God is one in three hypostases! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrinityThere can be no other explanation! In the original text stands the word "Elohim" which translates as "Gods"! There is no Trinity in the Bible. What is there in Genesis-1 is the two supreme gods, the Elohim, who created Man in their own image: one male and one female!!!! The Biblical Elohim come from the Canaanite religion (written about at Ugarit in Middle or "Phoenician" Canaan, a thousand years earlier). Il [El in Hebrew] had aspects or offsprings or administrators by various names: Mika-Il, Gabri-Il, Satan-Il, and the rest, who are called archangels in the Christian religion, where Satan is the fallen archangel. In Genesis-2, Moses imposes monotheism on his fellow Jews by reporting that the divine Yahweh [Yahweh Elohim, mistranslated as "the God Lord"] was a jealous god who demanded allegiance from the People He delivered from Egypt. Nevertheless, the Bible writers recognize the fact that there were other gods in the Middle East. In fact, at one point Yahweh is begged to demonstrate his greater power over other gods.// Since Canaanite is a mixture of Indo-European and Arabic [the proto-Semitic language], it is possible that the name "satan" is a corruption of the local Greek "sathe"(with the letter Heta) which is a synonym of Gr. Peos {Penis in Latin}. So, Satan may have been the name of Il's [El's] reproductive organ, which so tempted Eve in the Biblical garden. The penis is often represented by a snake or serpent.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Mar 16, 2018 23:58:46 GMT
This topic has already been discussed on the forum! God is one in three hypostases! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrinityThere can be no other explanation! In the original text stands the word "Elohim" which translates as "Gods"! There is no Trinity in the Bible. What is there in Genesis-1 is the two supreme gods, the Elohim, who created Man in their own image: one male and one female!!!! The Biblical Elohim come from the Canaanite religion (written about at Ugarit in Middle or "Phoenician" Canaan, a thousand years earlier). Il [El in Hebrew] had aspects or offsprings or administrators by various names: Mika-Il, Gabri-Il, Satan-Il, and the rest, who are called archangels in the Christian religion, where Satan is the fallen archangel. In Genesis-2, Moses imposes monotheism on his fellow Jews by reporting that the divine Yahweh [Yahweh Elohim, mistranslated as "the God Lord"] was a jealous god who demanded allegiance from the People He delivered from Egypt. Nevertheless, the Bible writers recognize the fact that there were other gods in the Middle East. In fact, at one point Yahweh is begged to demonstrate his greater power over other gods.// Since Canaanite is a mixture of Indo-European and Arabic [the proto-Semitic language], it is possible that the name "satan" is a corruption of the local Greek "sathe"(with the letter Heta) which is a synonym of Gr. Peos {Penis in Latin}. So, Satan may have been the name of Il's [El's] reproductive organ, which so tempted Eve in the Biblical garden. The penis is often represented by a snake or serpent. El or Eloah in Semitic language means God! Eloh im - this is the plural!For example - Malach and Malach im - Angel and angels!
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 17, 2018 0:02:52 GMT
This topic has already been discussed on the forum! God is one in three hypostases! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrinityThere can be no other explanation! In the original text stands the word "Elohim" which translates as "Gods"! There is no Trinity in the Bible. What is there in Genesis-1 is the two supreme gods, the Elohim, who created Man in their own image: one male and one female!!!! The Biblical Elohim come from the Canaanite religion (written about at Ugarit in Middle or "Phoenician" Canaan, a thousand years earlier). Il [El in Hebrew] had aspects or offsprings or administrators by various names: Mika-Il, Gabri-Il, Satan-Il, and the rest, who are called archangels in the Christian religion, where Satan is the fallen archangel. In Genesis-2, Moses imposes monotheism on his fellow Jews by reporting that the divine Yahweh [Yahweh Elohim, mistranslated as "the God Lord"] was a jealous god who demanded allegiance from the People He delivered from Egypt. Nevertheless, the Bible writers recognize the fact that there were other gods in the Middle East. In fact, at one point Yahweh is begged to demonstrate his greater power over other gods.// Since Canaanite is a mixture of Indo-European and Arabic [the proto-Semitic language], it is possible that the name "satan" is a corruption of the local Greek "sathe"(with the letter Heta) which is a synonym of Gr. Peos {Penis in Latin}. So, Satan may have been the name of Il's [El's] reproductive organ, which so tempted Eve in the Biblical garden. The penis is often represented by a snake or serpent. This verse speaks of Jesus. Colossians 2:9-23 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. Godhead is the same word as Trinity. They are synonyms. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/godhead
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Post by joustos on Mar 17, 2018 1:49:32 GMT
There is no Trinity in the Bible. What is there in Genesis-1 is the two supreme gods, the Elohim, who created Man in their own image: one male and one female!!!! The Biblical Elohim come from the Canaanite religion (written about at Ugarit in Middle or "Phoenician" Canaan, a thousand years earlier). Il [El in Hebrew] had aspects or offsprings or administrators by various names: Mika-Il, Gabri-Il, Satan-Il, and the rest, who are called archangels in the Christian religion, where Satan is the fallen archangel. In Genesis-2, Moses imposes monotheism on his fellow Jews by reporting that the divine Yahweh [Yahweh Elohim, mistranslated as "the God Lord"] was a jealous god who demanded allegiance from the People He delivered from Egypt. Nevertheless, the Bible writers recognize the fact that there were other gods in the Middle East. In fact, at one point Yahweh is begged to demonstrate his greater power over other gods.// Since Canaanite is a mixture of Indo-European and Arabic [the proto-Semitic language], it is possible that the name "satan" is a corruption of the local Greek "sathe"(with the letter Heta) which is a synonym of Gr. Peos {Penis in Latin}. So, Satan may have been the name of Il's [El's] reproductive organ, which so tempted Eve in the Biblical garden. The penis is often represented by a snake or serpent. This verse speaks of Jesus. Colossians 2:9-23 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. Godhead is the same word as Trinity. They are synonyms. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/godheadI beg to disagree with the Dictionary you quoted. The English "Godhead" or "Deity" (a singular word) is used frequently to translate the Biblical "Elohim" (a plural word) in order to avoid the idea that the Bible speaks of TWO gods, or to avoid the contradiction that Genesis-2 speaks of only one God(Yahweh). The fact remains that in the Aramaic religion (the religion of Abraham and of Jesus), the Elohim are, as in other ancient religions, a male and a female; in the Judaic religion or Jerusalem religion, there is only a male and unmarried God, Yahveh (the equivalent of the Roman Juppiter: Jous-pater, or Yove, the divine Legislator.) Ya- or Yo- or You- or Ye- was a Levantine non-Semitic rain God, pretty much like Zeus, in the oldest times.
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 17, 2018 1:53:26 GMT
This verse speaks of Jesus. Colossians 2:9-23 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. Godhead is the same word as Trinity. They are synonyms. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/godheadI beg to disagree with the Dictionary you quoted. The English "Godhead" or "Deity" (a singular word) is used frequently to translate the Biblical "Elohim" (a plural word) in order to avoid the idea that the Bible speaks of TWO gods, or to avoid the contradiction that Genesis-2 speaks of only one God(Yahweh). The fact remains that in the Aramaic religion (the religion of Abraham and of Jesus), the Elohim are, as in other ancient religions, a male and a female; in the Judaic religion or Jerusalem religion, there is only a male and unmarried God, Yahveh (the equivalent of the Roman Juppiter: Jous-pater, or Yove, the divine Legislator.) Ya- or Yo- or You- or Ye- was a Levantine non-Semitic God, pretty much like Zeus. in the oldest times. It's not 2 Gods. It's plural parts of a singular God. Christianity doesn't believe in multiple Gods. Trinity/Godhead is one God. Like humans have 3 parts...the soul or spirit, blood, and the rest. Or H2O of water.
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Post by joustos on Mar 17, 2018 2:41:00 GMT
Elizabeth, you are quite right that according to Christian theology, there is only one God, only one divine substance, though differentiated into three persons. The singularity of God was already implied by the Scriptures, which used Theo`s or Deus (a singular word) to translate the Biblical El or Elohim or Yahweh, So, "Elohim Yahveh" was translated as "Dominus Deus" [The Lord God] when, in fact, Yahveh does not mean Lord ( "Andonai" in Hebrew). In effect, the translations have created the impression that there is only one God.
John the evangelist (from Ephesus) was the last myth-maker, as he personified the word or mind of God: In the beginning was the Logos [the Word] and ... nothing was created that was not created through the Logos. Somebody else personified the Breath (Spiritus) of God, who had made the Adam clay-statue alive. So, three aspects of God became three persons, so distinct that one could be incarnated without the others. Hence Jesus of Nazareth and the theological problems that Christians must face..........
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Post by Διαμονδ on Mar 17, 2018 13:52:01 GMT
This verse speaks of Jesus. Colossians 2:9-23 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. Godhead is the same word as Trinity. They are synonyms. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/godheadI beg to disagree with the Dictionary you quoted. The English "Godhead" or "Deity" (a singular word) is used frequently to translate the Biblical "Elohim" (a plural word) in order to avoid the idea that the Bible speaks of TWO gods, or to avoid the contradiction that Genesis-2 speaks of only one God(Yahweh). The fact remains that in the Aramaic religion (the religion of Abraham and of Jesus), the Elohim are, as in other ancient religions, a male and a female; in the Judaic religion or Jerusalem religion, there is only a male and unmarried God, Yahveh (the equivalent of the Roman Juppiter: Jous-pater, or Yove, the divine Legislator.) Ya- or Yo- or You- or Ye- was a Levantine non-Semitic rain God, pretty much like Zeus, in the oldest times. Yahweh- YHWH ! Yod-Hey-Waw-Hey - - considered mystical the name of God which he revealed to Moses in the burning bush! The Jews were in Egypt and worshiped many gods (pagans)! Moses knew that the Jews would want to know the name of God, who wants to save them!
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Etu Malku
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Post by Etu Malku on Jun 30, 2018 21:55:57 GMT
Being there has been some mention of Lucifer in this thread, and I am a type of Luciferian, I thought I might comment.
In ancient Babylon the Sumerian king Etana is driven by pride to acquire a seat beside the Star Gods of the Northern Mountain but is defeated and 'falls'. To the Canaanites he was 'Shaher' the Morning Star who each day announced the birth of the Sun and his brother 'Shalem' the Evening Star announcing the death of the Sun.. Their mother being Asherah and her womb referred to as the 'pit', an aspect of the word 'Helel'. Asherah (Helel) attempts to dethrone the Sun god El is defeated and cast from the heavens. This becomes the Phoenician myth called the 'Fall of the Day Star' (7th Century B.C). This story becomes the Sumerian myth of Ishtar and Inanna's descent into the Underworld. "The actual name, "Lucifer," goes back to the Greeks, before the Romans. Socrates and Plato talk about this "god of light"; surprisingly, not in the context of Eos (god of Dawn), but ‑‑ as a morning star ‑‑ juxtaposed with the sun (Helios) and Hermes.
This information can be found in Plato's Timaeus (38e) and in Edith Hamilton's Mythology." - The Polytheism Of The Bible And The Mystery Of Lucifer by F.T. DeAngelis
Plato referred to the Morning Star as Aster which he at the time believed to also be the evening Star (he would be correct), Aster being a form of a dying-resurrecting god; "Aster, once, as Morning‑Star, light on the living you shed. Now, dying, as Evening‑Star, you shine among the dead."
Plato aside, the Greeks knew Hesperus as the Evening Star and Phosphorus as the Morning Star, both personifications of Venus. Phosphorus also called Eosphorus meant 'bearer of the dawn/light' and would be translated into Latin as the word 'Lucifer'. By 382 A.D. Pope Damasus I commissioned St. Jerome to write a revision of the Latin translation of the Bible. The Hebrew translation used the word 'Helel' and St. Jerome replaces this with the word 'Lucifer': "Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestries"
The Roman god Lucifer is found in the poet Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses" (8th century A.D.), the poet Virgil mentions him in 29 B.C. and the first mention of the Roman god Lucifer comes from Plato's dialogues from 360 B.C., where he is associating Venus with Lucifer and Mercury with Hermes.
Conclusion: The word Lucifer can be traced to the ancient ideals surrounding the myths associated with the Morningstar and his brother the Evening Star. Early on these myths place the Morningstar into the role of attempted usurper who is defeated and becomes a ‘fallen’ deity. It would not be until the Gnostics of the 1st century A.D. and Milton’s ‘Paradise Lost’ (1667 A.D.) found Lucifer to be the Serpent in the Garden of Eden and transformed the myth of the Fallen Morningstar into that of the angel Lucifer the principle of compassion for life and creation, defiance of corrupt authority and the current of spiritual evolution.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 30, 2018 22:06:13 GMT
Being there has been some mention of Lucifer in this thread, and I am a type of Luciferian, I thought I might comment. In ancient Babylon the Sumerian king Etana is driven by pride to acquire a seat beside the Star Gods of the Northern Mountain but is defeated and 'falls'. To the Canaanites he was 'Shaher' the Morning Star who each day announced the birth of the Sun and his brother 'Shalem' the Evening Star announcing the death of the Sun.. Their mother being Asherah and her womb referred to as the 'pit', an aspect of the word 'Helel'. Asherah (Helel) attempts to dethrone the Sun god El is defeated and cast from the heavens. This becomes the Phoenician myth called the 'Fall of the Day Star' (7th Century B.C). This story becomes the Sumerian myth of Ishtar and Inanna's descent into the Underworld. "The actual name, "Lucifer," goes back to the Greeks, before the Romans. Socrates and Plato talk about this "god of light"; surprisingly, not in the context of Eos (god of Dawn), but ‑‑ as a morning star ‑‑ juxtaposed with the sun (Helios) and Hermes. This information can be found in Plato's Timaeus (38e) and in Edith Hamilton's Mythology." - The Polytheism Of The Bible And The Mystery Of Lucifer by F.T. DeAngelis Plato referred to the Morning Star as Aster which he at the time believed to also be the evening Star (he would be correct), Aster being a form of a dying-resurrecting god; "Aster, once, as Morning‑Star, light on the living you shed. Now, dying, as Evening‑Star, you shine among the dead." Plato aside, the Greeks knew Hesperus as the Evening Star and Phosphorus as the Morning Star, both personifications of Venus. Phosphorus also called Eosphorus meant 'bearer of the dawn/light' and would be translated into Latin as the word 'Lucifer'. By 382 A.D. Pope Damasus I commissioned St. Jerome to write a revision of the Latin translation of the Bible. The Hebrew translation used the word 'Helel' and St. Jerome replaces this with the word 'Lucifer': "Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestries" The Roman god Lucifer is found in the poet Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses" (8th century A.D.), the poet Virgil mentions him in 29 B.C. and the first mention of the Roman god Lucifer comes from Plato's dialogues from 360 B.C., where he is associating Venus with Lucifer and Mercury with Hermes. Conclusion: The word Lucifer can be traced to the ancient ideals surrounding the myths associated with the Morningstar and his brother the Evening Star. Early on these myths place the Morningstar into the role of attempted usurper who is defeated and becomes a ‘fallen’ deity. It would not be until the Gnostics of the 1st century A.D. and Milton’s ‘Paradise Lost’ (1667 A.D.) found Lucifer to be the Serpent in the Garden of Eden and transformed the myth of the Fallen Morningstar into that of the angel Lucifer the principle of compassion for life and creation, defiance of corrupt authority and the current of spiritual evolution. What do you believe as a Luciferian? But I never knew there were different types. You can make a thread on them if you wish
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MEGA
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Post by MEGA on Jun 30, 2018 22:08:50 GMT
"Us" is referring to the Holy Trinity; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
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Etu Malku
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Post by Etu Malku on Jun 30, 2018 23:38:31 GMT
Being there has been some mention of Lucifer in this thread, and I am a type of Luciferian, I thought I might comment. In ancient Babylon the Sumerian king Etana is driven by pride to acquire a seat beside the Star Gods of the Northern Mountain but is defeated and 'falls'. To the Canaanites he was 'Shaher' the Morning Star who each day announced the birth of the Sun and his brother 'Shalem' the Evening Star announcing the death of the Sun.. Their mother being Asherah and her womb referred to as the 'pit', an aspect of the word 'Helel'. Asherah (Helel) attempts to dethrone the Sun god El is defeated and cast from the heavens. This becomes the Phoenician myth called the 'Fall of the Day Star' (7th Century B.C). This story becomes the Sumerian myth of Ishtar and Inanna's descent into the Underworld. "The actual name, "Lucifer," goes back to the Greeks, before the Romans. Socrates and Plato talk about this "god of light"; surprisingly, not in the context of Eos (god of Dawn), but ‑‑ as a morning star ‑‑ juxtaposed with the sun (Helios) and Hermes. This information can be found in Plato's Timaeus (38e) and in Edith Hamilton's Mythology." - The Polytheism Of The Bible And The Mystery Of Lucifer by F.T. DeAngelis Plato referred to the Morning Star as Aster which he at the time believed to also be the evening Star (he would be correct), Aster being a form of a dying-resurrecting god; "Aster, once, as Morning‑Star, light on the living you shed. Now, dying, as Evening‑Star, you shine among the dead." Plato aside, the Greeks knew Hesperus as the Evening Star and Phosphorus as the Morning Star, both personifications of Venus. Phosphorus also called Eosphorus meant 'bearer of the dawn/light' and would be translated into Latin as the word 'Lucifer'. By 382 A.D. Pope Damasus I commissioned St. Jerome to write a revision of the Latin translation of the Bible. The Hebrew translation used the word 'Helel' and St. Jerome replaces this with the word 'Lucifer': "Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestries" The Roman god Lucifer is found in the poet Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses" (8th century A.D.), the poet Virgil mentions him in 29 B.C. and the first mention of the Roman god Lucifer comes from Plato's dialogues from 360 B.C., where he is associating Venus with Lucifer and Mercury with Hermes. Conclusion: The word Lucifer can be traced to the ancient ideals surrounding the myths associated with the Morningstar and his brother the Evening Star. Early on these myths place the Morningstar into the role of attempted usurper who is defeated and becomes a ‘fallen’ deity. It would not be until the Gnostics of the 1st century A.D. and Milton’s ‘Paradise Lost’ (1667 A.D.) found Lucifer to be the Serpent in the Garden of Eden and transformed the myth of the Fallen Morningstar into that of the angel Lucifer the principle of compassion for life and creation, defiance of corrupt authority and the current of spiritual evolution. What do you believe as a Luciferian? But I never knew there were different types. You can make a thread on them if you wish Fundamental LuciferianismLuciferianism is a modern term for the magico-spiritual attainment of inner power through applicable knowledge of one's individual self. A Luciferian rejects all accepted truths and instead arrives at their conclusions through personal exploration. The balance of Light and Darkness, the Objective and the Subjective are of equal importance to the Luciferian.
*This analysis was determined through extracting the basic ideologies from all of the Luciferian schools of thought, their specific tenets omitted allowing a fundamental and unifying basis for Luciferianism.
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treez
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Post by treez on Jul 1, 2018 5:06:42 GMT
Lucifer's fall... before the book of genesis
Satan is a fallen angel. If we conceptualise with the example of Pandora's Box as a metaphor, and say it released faith in God as a pose to hope. Satan would be the establishment of Newtons Law, for every action there is an equal and opposite counter reaction.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jul 1, 2018 5:44:52 GMT
Lucifer's fall... before the book of genesis Satan is a fallen angel. If we conceptualise with the example of Pandora's Box as a metaphor, and say it released faith in God as a pose to hope. Satan would be the establishment of Newtons Law, for every action there is an equal and opposite counter reaction. Indeed. I agree with everything you wrote. Also, do you agree with just what's in the bible or with the apocrypha as well?
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treez
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Post by treez on Jul 1, 2018 6:11:13 GMT
Lucifer's fall... before the book of genesis Satan is a fallen angel. If we conceptualise with the example of Pandora's Box as a metaphor, and say it released faith in God as a pose to hope. Satan would be the establishment of Newtons Law, for every action there is an equal and opposite counter reaction. Indeed. I agree with everything you wrote. Also, do you agree with just what's in the bible or with the apocrypha as well? Everything is apocrypha until proven otherwise in my mind. There's so many bibles now, and none contain the book of solomon which is my opinion, by far the most interesting!
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Etu Malku
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Post by Etu Malku on Jul 1, 2018 12:54:31 GMT
Indeed. I agree with everything you wrote. Also, do you agree with just what's in the bible or with the apocrypha as well? Everything is apocrypha until proven otherwise in my mind. There's so many bibles now, and none contain the book of solomon which is my opinion, by far the most interesting! Where is it stated/verified that: 1) Lucifer was an angel in Abrahamic cosmology?
2) The name of Satan before this 'fall' was Lucifer? 3) Lucifer is anything other than a poetic device used by many authors symbolizing the Morning Star?
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