Ponderer
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Post by Ponderer on Feb 23, 2018 21:43:53 GMT
Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us in knowing good and evil" (Genesis 3:22). This statement in the Genesis account demonstrates the plurality, or Trinitarian nature of God. Notice the pronoun: “like one of Us”.
(The above I found on a Christian website)
Or is it that "Us" refers to God and his alter-ego Satan. God has mastery over the evil side of his nature and makes it his servant? Are we not just the same as God, having our evil side? But is it not true that many of us fail to control our evil side - which often controls us? Jesus was tempted by his evil side and overcame it?
Would this not explain the mixture of beauty and cruelty found throughout the natural world as well as our human world?
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 24, 2018 8:20:00 GMT
In effect then, God does good things and bad things. Let's be honest about it and not pass the buck. Yes, correct. Only thing Satan wasn't allowed to do is kill Job. But people do bad things to us too and God watches to see how we react as a test.
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 24, 2018 8:21:27 GMT
That's the standard understanding. Examine more carefully at the conversations between God and Satan and it's not so clear cut, is it? Yeah, Satan must always ask God for permission to do things. Sometimes God allows and sometimes He says he can only do some of it and sometimes none of it. But not without permission.
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Ponderer
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Post by Ponderer on Feb 24, 2018 8:49:48 GMT
As I said, God is in control of his own personal dark side, yes?
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 24, 2018 8:55:26 GMT
What dark side?
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xero_art
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Post by xero_art on Feb 24, 2018 9:15:23 GMT
God is omniscient and omnipotent. You need to define evil, Ponderer.
Does God have the ability to stop all the death and famine and bad things in the world? Yes. Does God have the ability to stop Satan? Yes. And yet he does not.
I often see this as an argument to God not being real. The logic follows, if he is benevolent, all-knowing, and all-powerful, he would not allow bad things to happen.
That's a very simplistic argument and that is why it is so foolish. Are we all constantly on fire? Are there constant hurricanes and tsunamis everywhere in the world, year round, no. Yes, there is sadness in the world. Without it we wouldn't be able to know happiness.
So, yes, God does allow Satan to do evil sometimes. But, if that alone is cause to believe Him to be evil, then so are you every time you don't do everything you can to help everyone less fortunate than you.
I don't entirely disagree with you. God created the angels and man. This includes Satan. I don't believe God, himself, is evil. I do believe He understands both good and evil--part of being omniscient.
Lastly, are non-believers evil? That is up to interpretation. But, show me in the Bible where good people were punished simply for not believing in God? There are plenty of cases where Christians(or Jews in the old testament) are punished for not being true and good.
My interpretation is that good and evil are light and darkness. God is the being by which light is shed upon the earth. However you come to find the light, the light is the love of the Father and you are with Him so long as you remain in it, no matter your faith.
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Ponderer
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Post by Ponderer on Feb 24, 2018 16:57:37 GMT
What dark side? Satan, his alter ego.
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Ponderer
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Post by Ponderer on Feb 24, 2018 17:14:54 GMT
Xero_art wrote: "You need to define evil, Ponderer." From wiki: Evil, in a general context, is the absence or opposite of that which is described as being good. Often, evil denotes profound immorality.
Xero_art wrote: "So, yes, God does allow Satan to do evil sometimes. But, if that alone is cause to believe Him to be evil, then so are you every time you don't do everything you can to help everyone less fortunate than you." I did not say that God is all evil. What I am saying is that God is both good and evil - the same as us.
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 24, 2018 17:43:30 GMT
What dark side? Satan, his alter ego. God doesn't have alter ego. Satan was an angel that God made named Lucifer.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 24, 2018 17:49:33 GMT
Satan is only a fallen angel to whom God has permitted to act in world! He is not equal to God!
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Ponderer
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Post by Ponderer on Feb 24, 2018 19:01:44 GMT
God doesn't have alter ego. Satan was an angel that God made named Lucifer. You are referring to Isaiah 14;12, the only place in the Bible that this name is mentioned. Even then, the name Lucifer is not used in the Hebrew text, but a name that translates to "morning star". Lucifer was actually a Roman god equated with Venus, the morning star, and this is where the name Lucifer has been misused in Latin translations. Biblical scholars are divided on it. Two examples from the wiki: Calvin said: "The exposition of this passage, which some have given, as if it referred to Satan, has arisen from ignorance: for the context plainly shows these statements must be understood in reference to the king of the Babylonians." Luther also considered it a gross error to refer this verse to the devil.
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 24, 2018 20:07:53 GMT
God doesn't have alter ego. Satan was an angel that God made named Lucifer. You are referring to Isaiah 14;12, the only place in the Bible that this name is mentioned. Even then, the name Lucifer is not used in the Hebrew text, but a name that translates to "morning star". Lucifer was actually a Roman god equated with Venus, the morning star, and this is where the name Lucifer has been misused in Latin translations. Biblical scholars are divided on it. Two examples from the wiki: Calvin said: "The exposition of this passage, which some have given, as if it referred to Satan, has arisen from ignorance: for the context plainly shows these statements must be understood in reference to the king of the Babylonians." Luther also considered it a gross error to refer this verse to the devil. Point is that he was an angel that fell from heaven. He couldn't be God then.
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Ponderer
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Post by Ponderer on Feb 24, 2018 22:05:12 GMT
Consider Matthew 16; 21-23.
The name "Satan" in the OT translates literally as "adversary" or "opposer". Can we assume that the same applies here? In verse 22, Peter is actually doing a good thing in proposing to defend Jesus' life. So who is Jesus speaking to in verse 23? Satan? Peter? Or is it he is rebuking his own thoughts? Is it a response to being tempted (in his own mind) to escape his designated task?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 23:31:33 GMT
PondererSo, the proposition: 'someone or something inside 'Us' knows evil' can be implied. 'To know evil' not equals 'to be evil'. Yes, we don't control ourselves all the time. Some things to be evil can be done by us, but it doesn't mean 'allows by us'. Was Jesus tempted by his evil side? You're talking about Bible or Kazantzakis novel? This remark of yours doesn't fit much to the previous from Genesis. Surely, we can think that the God of Christian has 'dark side', but historically and religiously it is not correct. Angel&Demons views originated from 'round 2-3 BC. Composition of the complex structure of God - 2-3 AC.
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 25, 2018 10:17:29 GMT
Consider Matthew 16; 21-23. The name "Satan" in the OT translates literally as "adversary" or "opposer". Can we assume that the same applies here? In verse 22, Peter is actually doing a good thing in proposing to defend Jesus' life. So who is Jesus speaking to in verse 23? Satan? Peter? Or is it he is rebuking his own thoughts? Is it a response to being tempted (in his own mind) to escape his designated task? God's children are called godly in actions when they obey and reflect God. Satan's children are the rest of humanity who do not. Peter was not acting godly when he should have been so Jesus referred to him as Satan instead. It was Peter's actions that made Jesus say that. Like if someone says we are a chicken, it doesn't mean literally. It just means we act like a chicken by being scared. Or if someone calls a person a pig, it just means they're being messy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 22:21:14 GMT
ElizabethExcuse me... am I a child of Satan?I can confuse people with animals, and call them pigs or chickens. It is normal for any person to be an animal. We're all animals grazing in God's country yard.
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