Ponderer
Junior Member
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Age: Going on 900
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Post by Ponderer on Feb 18, 2018 2:11:22 GMT
Did God test Abraham for obedience, or was it something else much less noble? We are told of Abraham's previous cowardly actions regarding Sarah, his wife. Was he actually being tested to reveal how upright the man really was? - and failed the test dismally? Nowhere in the account does it say that he passed.
What if he had refused?
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 19, 2018 9:07:07 GMT
Well, the essence of this does not change! Actually it does in a subtle way that directly relates to this thread. A lord demands obedience and submission, while God (Yehovah) does not. So calling God "Lord" is misrepresenting God. This is why: God also said to Moses, “Say this to the Israelites: Yehovah, the god of your fathers, the god of Abraham, the god of Isaac, and the god of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever this is how I am to be remembered in every generation. -- Exodus 3:15 Calling God "Lord" or "adonai" violates this. Ок! You say that you listen to God from the Torah? Devarim - chapter 23 verse 14(Deut. 23: 13) is present in your life? This nobody canceled!
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Ponderer
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Likes: 10
Politics: Balance
Religion: Open to all possibilities
Age: Going on 900
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Post by Ponderer on Feb 19, 2018 9:08:56 GMT
I must admit, fschmidt and Diamond, I am lost. Are we stumbling onto something that will explain why God's title is plural?
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 19, 2018 9:16:30 GMT
I must admit, fschmidt and Diamond, I am lost. Are we stumbling onto something that will explain why God's title is plural? God is in the Torah in the plural because it is a hint that God has three hypostases! And God said: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: Gen. 1:26
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 19, 2018 9:16:41 GMT
Plural? Not quite. God is only one. Christians claim God is 3 in 1. 3 different parts yet form one full being. While fschmidt claims God is just 1 and not 3 parts. However, from the very beginning God referenced Himself in plural form and not single. Starting in Genesis and all the way to Revelation.
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 19, 2018 9:17:23 GMT
You forgot to bold the word "us" Diamond xD
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 19, 2018 9:49:42 GMT
You forgot to bold the word "us" Diamond xD I'm not really an expert in English! Shrug Do not forget this ! God in the plural. Read the originals of the Bible!
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 19, 2018 9:58:55 GMT
I never said it wasn't plural. Hmm
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 19, 2018 12:03:36 GMT
fschmidt
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Post by fschmidt on Feb 19, 2018 20:00:58 GMT
Ок! You say that you listen to God from the Torah? Devarim - chapter 23 verse 14(Deut. 23: 13) is present in your life? This nobody canceled! And I keep this whenever I get into my time machine, go back 3000 years, get involved in a battle and am encamped against my enemies.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 19, 2018 22:29:35 GMT
Ок! You say that you listen to God from the Torah? Devarim - chapter 23 verse 14(Deut. 23: 13) is present in your life? This nobody canceled! And I keep this whenever I get into my time machine, go back 3000 years, get involved in a battle and am encamped against my enemies. In fact, this is a departure from the answer!
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 20, 2018 8:16:35 GMT
Of course, according to Jesus, Moses passed because he was willing to do what God asked of him in by doing so Abraham's faith was made perfect by this action. So, clearly would mean we should just trust God no matter what and obey Him.
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Ponderer
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Politics: Balance
Religion: Open to all possibilities
Age: Going on 900
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Post by Ponderer on Feb 21, 2018 21:25:10 GMT
Of course, according to Jesus, Moses passed because he was willing to do what God asked of him in by doing so Abraham's faith was made perfect by this action. So, clearly would mean we should just trust God no matter what and obey Him. Why does God want us to obey him without question? It makes no sense to have our own minds and not use them.
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 21, 2018 21:46:21 GMT
Of course, according to Jesus, Moses passed because he was willing to do what God asked of him in by doing so Abraham's faith was made perfect by this action. So, clearly would mean we should just trust God no matter what and obey Him. Why does God want us to obey him without question? It makes no sense to have our own minds and not use them. God is smarter than us so He already knows it's good for us to obey Him. He already says He is the one who saves us from destruction. And He gave us our own minds to not fail His tests and have us realize we need Him.
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Ponderer
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Likes: 10
Politics: Balance
Religion: Open to all possibilities
Age: Going on 900
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Post by Ponderer on Feb 21, 2018 21:52:26 GMT
I ask again: What if Abraham refused? Would God have condemned him for being disobedient or would he have been commended for refusing to commit murder?
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 21, 2018 22:09:19 GMT
I ask again: What if Abraham refused? Would God have condemned him for being disobedient or would he have been commended for refusing to commit murder? Condemn? Yes. That would mean he disobeyed and will get punished. 2 Corinthians 5:10 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
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