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Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 17, 2018 10:05:49 GMT
Are they? What do you think? Let's discuss.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 18, 2018 23:31:08 GMT
And a bonus, -John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. I hope you understand that prayer is the highest form of worship. So, when you pray to Mary, or to any saint, you are worshipping them in the highest form. I believe we had a conversation in another thread in where you were otherwise swearing by traditions, and yet again here you are doing the same thing, swearing by a "Holy Tradition" even when the scripture says this about traditions, -Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. -Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. -2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. He who prays to saints never prays in the HIGHEST FORM! Only God saves us! -2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle' I hold on to this tradition! About saint: To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne! Revelation 3:21 Prayer IS the highest form of worship. Only God can hear our prayers and only in Christ's name. Don't ignore the rest of scripture just because it doesn't fit what you believe. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle "whether by word, or our epistle", by which word or epistle is praying to the saints considered a tradition? It is a tradition of men, not a tradition by word or epistle.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 18, 2018 23:52:05 GMT
He who prays to saints never prays in the HIGHEST FORM! Only God saves us! -2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle' I hold on to this tradition! About saint: To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne! Revelation 3:21 Prayer IS the highest form of worship. Only God can hear our prayers and only in Christ's name. Don't ignore the rest of scripture just because it doesn't fit what you believe. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle "whether by word, or our epistle", by which word or epistle is praying to the saints considered a tradition? It is a tradition of men, not a tradition by word or epistle. No man on earth can know exactly what is heard in heaven! This is true! Do not forget that for atheists any prayer is a mere sound! This is a matter of faith!The Bible did not just fall from the sky like a meteorite! She was written for centuries! Already after the persecution in the Roman Empire, the Church Fathers Bible was compiled into a single book! In addition to the Bible, they received this tradition! Read, for example, about the cathedral in Carthage! In any case, these are questions of faith, and this is faith that saves a person! As for the Catholics, after 1054 they fell into schism!
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Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 19, 2018 9:32:09 GMT
Prayer IS the highest form of worship. Only God can hear our prayers and only in Christ's name. Don't ignore the rest of scripture just because it doesn't fit what you believe. 2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle "whether by word, or our epistle", by which word or epistle is praying to the saints considered a tradition? It is a tradition of men, not a tradition by word or epistle. No man on earth can know exactly what is heard in heaven! This is true! Do not forget that for atheists any prayer is a mere sound! This is a matter of faith!The Bible did not just fall from the sky like a meteorite! She was written for centuries! Already after the persecution in the Roman Empire, the Church Fathers Bible was compiled into a single book! In addition to the Bible, they received this tradition! Read, for example, about the cathedral in Carthage! In any case, these are questions of faith, and this is faith that saves a person! As for the Catholics, after 1054 they fell into schism!
"Church Fathers Bible was compiled into a single book!" No, God did it because He said He would in Psalms 12:6-7 6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Diamond, you need to trust more in the LORD than in men. The scriptures do not support praying to the saints; I've already shown you so many verses showing who we are supposed to pray to. Please read them again.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 19, 2018 9:42:23 GMT
No man on earth can know exactly what is heard in heaven! This is true! Do not forget that for atheists any prayer is a mere sound! This is a matter of faith!The Bible did not just fall from the sky like a meteorite! She was written for centuries! Already after the persecution in the Roman Empire, the Church Fathers Bible was compiled into a single book! In addition to the Bible, they received this tradition! Read, for example, about the cathedral in Carthage! In any case, these are questions of faith, and this is faith that saves a person! As for the Catholics, after 1054 they fell into schism!
"Church Fathers Bible was compiled into a single book!" No, God did it because He said He would in Psalms 12:6-7 6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Diamond, you need to trust more in the LORD than in men. The scriptures do not support praying to the saints; I've already shown you so many verses showing who we are supposed to pray to. Please read them again. The people who designed the Bible in one book were guided by God's spirit! All the other rules they also got from him! The Psalm you cited shows only God's Children can have the blessings of keeping the Scriptures! You yourself said that you are outside the church - Tell the church; And if he does not listen to the church, let him be to you, like a heathen and a publican ... (Matthew 18: 15-17)
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 19, 2018 9:57:29 GMT
The psalms he listed only mention God. God doesn't need anyone else's help to preserve them. God can do it Himself, and do it better.
He is all powerful and all knowing after all. No person can ever compete, saint or not.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 19, 2018 10:05:53 GMT
"Church Fathers Bible was compiled into a single book!" No, God did it because He said He would in Psalms 12:6-7 6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. Diamond, you need to trust more in the LORD than in men. The scriptures do not support praying to the saints; I've already shown you so many verses showing who we are supposed to pray to. Please read them again. The people who designed the Bible in one book were guided by God's spirit! All the other rules they also got from him! The Psalm you cited shows only God's Children can have the blessings of keeping the Scriptures! You yourself said that you are outside the church - Tell the church; And if he does not listen to the church, let him be to you, like a heathen and a publican ... (Matthew 18: 15-17) "The people who designed the Bible in one book were guided by God's spirit!" Yes I am not arguing against that, I am saying the scriptures in the Bible do not support praying to the saints. "All the other rules they also got from him!" No, that's where you are wrong. Scripture doesn't back those traditions you follow at all as I, once again, refer you to the scripture I shared with you earlier. "The Psalm you cited shows only God's Children can have the blessings of keeping the Scriptures!" No, the Psalms I cited literally says God is going to preserve His words forever. Matthew 18:15-17 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. I did not trespass against you, and I have listened to you, I've considered everything you have said. Put yourself in the shoes of the brother who "will not hear thee", because you aren't hearing me, but at the same time I am not claiming that you have trespassed against me because you haven't. I am only hoping that you consider the scriptures I posted earlier that totally go against praying to saints. I am trying to help you, but it seems you have become so ingrained in what the Orthodox Church has taught you, that you are now closed-minded to everything else. And by the way, the church is not my authority, Christ is(1 Corinthians 11:3).
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 19, 2018 10:18:02 GMT
but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. - This rule always applies when a person does not hear the church! As for the saints and the righteous, read here my answer please! arktos.boards.net/thread/1522/doctrine-salvation?page=4
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Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 19, 2018 10:29:54 GMT
but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. - This rule always applies when a person does not hear the church! As for the saints and the righteous, read here my answer please! arktos.boards.net/thread/1522/doctrine-salvation?page=4You're not using that verse in the context. It's if I neglect to hear the church as per my trespass against you, though I did not trespass against you, so it has nothing to do with what we are talking about. I have read your answers, the problem is your answers do not support your tradition of praying to the saints. The scripture I provided to you in this thread shows you who we should be praying to. Must I show them to you again? -Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. -Matthew 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest. -Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. -Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. -Matthew 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? -John 14:13-14 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.-John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; -John 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: -Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. -Acts 8:24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me. -Acts 10:25-26 25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
-Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. -Romans 15:30 Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me; -Philippians 4:6-7 6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. -1 Corinthians 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? -Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. -Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. And from the Old Testament, -Deuteronomy 18:9-12 9 When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee. -Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. I will give you a little insight on the OT scripture I quoted here; a "familiar spirit" is a dead person or even a demon, since nowhere in the Bible does it say we can pray to the saints and they will pray to God for us, you are either praying to dead people or demons. You should repent of this, and take heed to the word of God.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 19, 2018 10:48:54 GMT
James chapter 5 verse 16 Ephesians 6 chapter verse 18 You just do not understand that prayer to the saints is simply request that they are praying for us for God! No one prays to them as God and to a concrete savior only Christ the Savior!
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 19, 2018 10:52:06 GMT
In conclusion...
1 Timothy 2:1 First of all, I ask that you pray for all people. Ask God to bless them and give them what they need. And give thanks.
Whatever is needed we ask of it from God in prayer as Paul knows to or he'd write instead to ask Peter or John or even himself. If we want to ask for blessings or for a need then we ask God it says. We ask no one else. And our thanks goes to God as well. Nothing goes to saints or anyone else. Not to Abraham or Isaac or Jacob. We pray to only God for anything and everything while giving Him thanks.
The request we ask is for God for in prayer. All our prayer requests must go to God. When praying about people, we pray about them to God.
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Rudolf Hess
New Member
Posts: 4
Likes: 2
Country: United States
Ancestry: Scandavian
Politics: Natioanal Socialism
Religion: Roman Catholicism
Hero: Benito Mussolini
Age: 21
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Post by Rudolf Hess on Mar 9, 2018 20:22:41 GMT
Us Roman Catholics are Christians but all other sect of Christianity are essentially branches of the catholic church except the Orthodox church.
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 9, 2018 20:36:31 GMT
Us Roman Catholics are Christians but all other sect of Christianity are essentially branches of the catholic church except the Orthodox church. Protestants are part of catholics?
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Post by Διαμονδ on Mar 9, 2018 20:40:55 GMT
Rudolf HessCatholics say that the Pope is the Roman vicar of God on earth! Where does the Bible say about these? Very interesting! :/
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Post by DKTrav88 on Mar 9, 2018 20:48:35 GMT
Us Roman Catholics are Christians but all other sect of Christianity are essentially branches of the catholic church except the Orthodox church. How are Catholics considered Christian? Their authority isn't scripture, it's a man in a funny hat with a robe on and a staff that claims he is the mediator between God and men.
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Rudolf Hess
New Member
Posts: 4
Likes: 2
Country: United States
Ancestry: Scandavian
Politics: Natioanal Socialism
Religion: Roman Catholicism
Hero: Benito Mussolini
Age: 21
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Post by Rudolf Hess on Mar 9, 2018 20:54:23 GMT
The pope sits on the chair of Saint Peter through apostolic succession
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