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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 11, 2018 17:34:45 GMT
Maybe someone wants to discuss the Bible? Various interesting and not understandable places of scripture ... let's discuss here!
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 12, 2018 8:29:07 GMT
You seem to confuse Hell with Purgatory. If he was dead and visiting "Hell" as you say, then he lied, as he said the robber that he will be with him in the Paradise the very same day when in fact Jesus was not in Paradise. What did it mean that he was not in paradise? He visited the same day in hell and in heaven! Do not forget that in the spiritual world ... time goes not as we have. He managed everything!
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 12, 2018 8:31:52 GMT
Διαμονδ see this is why we're confused... You said this, "Hell is temporary! In fact, hell is purgatory ...' And then you said, " was talking about purgatory? No....
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 12, 2018 8:38:13 GMT
Διαμονδ see this is why we're confused... You said this, "Hell is temporary! In fact, hell is purgatory ...' And then you said, " was talking about purgatory? No.... I deny purgatory which is the faith of Catholics! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory Romeo from a Catholic country so he is under the influence of catholic theology! I'm just saying that de facto-modern hell is purgatory! I called hell a purgatory rather in a figurative meaning .. not in direct!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 9:37:17 GMT
I just realised that you answered, I forgot by now.
However, it still doesn't explain why Jesus told the other guy that they will be in Paradise "today", while he was supposed to be for 3 days somewhere else, Purgatory or not.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 20, 2018 9:43:06 GMT
I just realised that you answered, I forgot by now. However, it still doesn't explain why Jesus told the other guy that they will be in Paradise "today", while he was supposed to be for 3 days somewhere else, Purgatory or not. I think that we should not forget that God is everywhere and in fact on that day he could be in hell and in heaven! In addition, time is a relative concept ..
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 10:05:24 GMT
If Jesus is God, and not his son.
Regarding Jesus' words on cross, I actually wanted to see if someone will mention mistakes in translation, due to the fact that at first the Bible was written without commas. Some other Christians, Jehovah Witnesses for sure, don't know about the others, claim that comma was placed in wrong place and the information should suggest more or less the words: "Today I tell you, you will be with me in the Paradise".
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 20, 2018 10:11:28 GMT
Commas or not, he went to heaven after death. No purgatory or hell even.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 20, 2018 10:28:58 GMT
Jesus is the son of a god, but he and the father are one(JOHN 10:30) But the son after he died - "and a sign shall not be given to him, except the sign of Jonah the prophet; For as Jonah was in the womb of the whale for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights" (Matthew 12: 38-40)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 10:38:50 GMT
Commas or not, he went to heaven after death. No purgatory or hell even. It is said that he was in some kind of Oblivion. So not in Heaven directly after the death. Jesus is the son of a god, but he and the father are one(JOHN 10:30) But the son after he died - "and a sign shall not be given to him, except the sign of Jonah the prophet; For as Jonah was in the womb of the whale for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights" (Matthew 12: 38-40) The part of Jesus and his father being one always sounded strange to me, even when I was a Catholic. The heard of the earth for three days. So what about the disappearance of the body and its resurrection? He decided to not take body for three days for a reason only to bring it to Heaven later?
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 20, 2018 10:43:09 GMT
Commas or not, he went to heaven after death. No purgatory or hell even. It is said that he was in some kind of Oblivion. So not in Heaven directly after the death. Jesus is the son of a god, but he and the father are one(JOHN 10:30) But the son after he died - "and a sign shall not be given to him, except the sign of Jonah the prophet; For as Jonah was in the womb of the whale for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights" (Matthew 12: 38-40) The part of Jesus and his father being one always sounded strange to me, even when I was a Catholic. The heard of the earth for three days. So what about the disappearance of the body and its resurrection? He decided to not take body for three days for a reason only to bring it to Heaven later? Verse for oblivion? Well, everyone still goes to judgement day so they're informed about where they're going to spend eternity and why.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 20, 2018 10:47:49 GMT
Commas or not, he went to heaven after death. No purgatory or hell even. It is said that he was in some kind of Oblivion. So not in Heaven directly after the death. Jesus is the son of a god, but he and the father are one(JOHN 10:30) But the son after he died - "and a sign shall not be given to him, except the sign of Jonah the prophet; For as Jonah was in the womb of the whale for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights" (Matthew 12: 38-40) The part of Jesus and his father being one always sounded strange to me, even when I was a Catholic. The heard of the earth for three days. So what about the disappearance of the body and its resurrection? He decided to not take body for three days for a reason only to bring it to Heaven later? Well, to understand the whole concept, it must be understood that this refers to the spiritual world, in which there are no limitations of our material world! After Christ fulfilled his role in transporting believers into him to heaven, he was resurrected!
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Post by Διαμονδ on Feb 20, 2018 10:53:10 GMT
It is said that he was in some kind of Oblivion. So not in Heaven directly after the death. The part of Jesus and his father being one always sounded strange to me, even when I was a Catholic. The heard of the earth for three days. So what about the disappearance of the body and its resurrection? He decided to not take body for three days for a reason only to bring it to Heaven later? Verse for oblivion? Well, everyone still goes to judgement day so they're informed about where they're going to spend eternity and why. Men of Israel, give ear to these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man who had the approval of God, as was made clear to you by the great works and signs and wonders which God did by him among you, as you yourselves have knowledge, 2:23 Him, when he was given up, by the decision and knowledge of God, you put to death on the cross, by the hands of evil men: 2:24 But God gave him back to life, having made him free from the pains of death because it was not possible for him to be overcome by it. 2:25 For David said of him, I saw the Lord before my face at all times, for he is at my right hand, so that I may not be moved: 2:26 And for this cause my heart was glad and my tongue full of joy, and my flesh will be resting in hope: 2:27 For you will not let my soul be in hell and you will not give up your Holy One to destruction.
2:28 You have made me see the ways of life; I will be full of joy when I see your face. 2:29 My brothers, I may say to you openly that David came to his death, and was put in the earth, and his resting-place is with us today. 2:30 But being a prophet, and having in mind the oath which God had given to him, that of the fruit of his body one would take his place as a king, 2:31 He, having knowledge of the future, was talking of the coming again of Christ from the dead, that he was not kept in hell and his body did not see destruction.
2:32 This Jesus God has given back to life, of which we all are witnesses. (Acts 2, 25-28)
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 20, 2018 10:54:16 GMT
That verse just means you don't go to hell
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 10:55:26 GMT
It is said that he was in some kind of Oblivion. So not in Heaven directly after the death. The part of Jesus and his father being one always sounded strange to me, even when I was a Catholic. The heard of the earth for three days. So what about the disappearance of the body and its resurrection? He decided to not take body for three days for a reason only to bring it to Heaven later? Verse for oblivion? Well, everyone still goes to judgement day so they're informed about where they're going to spend eternity and why. I mentioned it here: arktos.boards.net/post/14584/threadThat's the point. If it is supposed to be decided during the Judgement Day where someone will spend eternity, how comes some are going to Hell or Heaven (or Purgatory in Catholicism and maybe some others) after the death, but before the Judgement Day? It is said that he was in some kind of Oblivion. So not in Heaven directly after the death. The part of Jesus and his father being one always sounded strange to me, even when I was a Catholic. The heard of the earth for three days. So what about the disappearance of the body and its resurrection? He decided to not take body for three days for a reason only to bring it to Heaven later? Well, to understand the whole concept, it must be understood that this refers to the spiritual world, in which there are no limitations of our material world! After Christ fulfilled his role in transporting believers into him to heaven, he was resurrected! So he was killed and raised to life after 3 days. It took him exactly three days to transport these "believers" to Heaven. Then this robber was first in Heaven, when Jesus was not there because of those 3 days.
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 20, 2018 11:04:58 GMT
Verse for oblivion? Well, everyone still goes to judgement day so they're informed about where they're going to spend eternity and why. I personally think that judgement happens right after death and they where they go right away. Because as people are living at the time the book of revelation takes place...the revelation book mentions a multitude of people in heaven already. So would not make sense if judgement happens for them at a later time if they're already in the place they'd spend eternity.
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