Supermentalita
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Post by Supermentalita on Jan 12, 2018 14:05:35 GMT
 The Holy Apostle Timon was one of the seven deacons appointed by the Apostles (Acts 6:5) to minister to destitute Christian widows. Later, he was chosen bishop of the city of Bosra in Syria, where he led many to Christianity. He was thrown into a red-hot furnace and received the crown of martyrdom. He is also commemorated on July 28). |
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amenemhab
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Post by amenemhab on Jan 16, 2018 23:29:15 GMT
...Jesus didn't care for the traditions religious people observed. He only cared if the bible was observed...tradition is not biblical law so it isn't required and should absolutely be removed if not according to scripture.
Of course it’s possible to go overboard on tradition. Of these two means of gaining knowledge of God, written scripture remains the more authoritative, as it is a source we can trust not to change arbitrarily. I’m definitely not a Roman Catholic.
Yet Paul supported the concept of received tradition in 2 Thessalonians 3:6-7. Hence the use of tradition is itself scriptural. Not only that, but the bible is a text tradition receiving regular updating in the form of new translations and new, annotated editions of the original Hebrew and Greek. It seems people are creatures of habit, and God knows this.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jan 17, 2018 0:09:01 GMT
...Jesus didn't care for the traditions religious people observed. He only cared if the bible was observed...tradition is not biblical law so it isn't required and should absolutely be removed if not according to scripture.
Of course it’s possible to go overboard on tradition. Of these two means of gaining knowledge of God, written scripture remains the more authoritative, as it is a source we can trust not to change arbitrarily. I’m definitely not a Roman Catholic.
Yet Paul supported the concept of received tradition in 2 Thessalonians 3:6-7. Hence the use of tradition is itself scriptural. Not only that, but the bible is a text tradition receiving regular updating in the form of new translations and new, annotated editions of the original Hebrew and Greek. It seems people are creatures of habit, and God knows this.
Yeah He went to the temple to preach Christianity not study anything He didn't already know. At age 12 He was teaching at the synagogue and marveling everyone there. Why do you think the Jews hated Him and wanted Him dead? He did not observe Jewish law in fact. He saw them ready to stone a woman and He told them to stop. Jews accused Him of a lot of things because He didn't in fact observe what they did. If He did observe they wouldn't demand Him to be crucified. He was not their own and they hated Him with a passion. And He didn't just pick on Pharisees but Saducees (not sure on spelling) plus the Jews. He called them all hypocrites basically. |
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amenemhab
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Post by amenemhab on Jan 17, 2018 1:42:04 GMT
...He went to the temple to preach Christianity not study anything He didn't already know...And He didn't just pick on Pharisees but Saducees plus the Jews. He called them all hypocrites basically.  , you see, because they denied the resurrection of the dead. The Pharisees loved to “enlarge the borders” of their expensive garments. The temple was making money hand over fist on the backs of the poor.
Yet Jesus was a Jew. He did not preach Christianity during his lifetime, in the temple or anywhere else, although he hinted at its pending arrival in discussions with his disciples. The only thing he ever preached at the temple was his remarks to the moneychangers and sellers of doves in the courtyard there, as he went around knocking their tables over. He said they’d made the house of God a den of thieves (Mark 11:17).
Jesus did recommend certain new ideas for adoption by Jews. Key among these was his syllabus for the Law: Love God, love neighbor (Matthew 22:34-40). He also told Peter, “Feed my sheep” (John 21:15-17), meaning this literally as well as figuratively. The church is a social institution, the one Jesus, speaking to Peter, promised to back once he’d risen from the dead (Matthew 16:18), a feat the book of Acts informs us was achieved via the agency of the Holy Ghost. Once the first churches were established, traditionally by Peter and Paul, Christianity as a religion was finally here.
The debate over tradition versus scripture is silly. There were reasons for it at the time of the Reformation. The Roman Catholic Church of 1517 had become a corrupt bureaucracy headed by a scion of Florence’s ruling Medici family, Pope Leo X, who was so venial his notoriety reached China. The Medicis, you recall, were bankers to Europe. Martin Luther opposed the sale of indulgences—pardons for sin—which made up a good fraction of a typical priest’s income.
Yet today the Catholic Church is respectable. Not that I agree a pope can speak ex cathedra for God (I’m Episcopalian), nor do I relish the priestly sex scandals of recent years. I respect Catholic scholarship and love for God, however. I’m saddened to hear its Abbey of the Holy Trinity, a Trappist monastery near Huntsville, Utah, closed last year. Such a peaceful place it was, cows grazing in its pasture, beehives busy making the honey it sold. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jan 17, 2018 3:29:30 GMT
...He went to the temple to preach Christianity not study anything He didn't already know...And He didn't just pick on Pharisees but Saducees plus the Jews. He called them all hypocrites basically. Yeah but Jesus was against Pharisees, Sadducees, and basically all the religious leaders. He destroyed the temple because they were misusing it and he called them hypocrites and all that. No way was He observing their laws and after causing so much of an uproar the religious people sought to kill Him. He wasn't their own and they new it. They saw Him as an outsider who must be killed. And Jesus warned people of them too. He said they were not righteous as they claimed to be and that we have to be more righteous than them. Matthew 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven I don't call Him a Jew and the Jews rejected Him as their own. The prophets and others call Him a Nazarene instead and Jesus answers to Nazarene. Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, “He shall be called a Nazarene.” Of course. Jesus brought new ideas/religion to the Jews which they rejected Him and the ideas. That basically means He thought Christianity or New Testament to them but they didn't want it. The people split then. Jewish law and Jesus' law. Apostles finally called themselves Christian in beginning of Acts. Jesus wouldn't care about the reasons of the Roman Catholic church. He would destroy the church that sold indulgences like He did in the past. So the church who are making it a business, well I'm not attending them xD Well, not everyone respects them  |
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jan 17, 2018 7:38:19 GMT
The problem is that unfortunately you did not study the history of the church. You need more time to study the history of your religion! Recall the Bible in which you believe in the first centuries of Christianity did not exist as a one book! There were many Scriptures from Genesis to the Apocalypse! Therefore, the Fathers of the Church(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Fathers) collected all the scriptures in a single book- The Bible! Fathers of the church received from the apostles and the Tradition of which entered the canon of the History of the Church! For example - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolycarpIn other words, the story of Christ did not end with his Gospel and the apostles! The history of the church was continued by their students and so on. All this was included in the canon of Tradition! In other words, it is the history of the church! Absolutely not what you think! |
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amenemhab
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Post by amenemhab on Jan 17, 2018 11:08:58 GMT
Yeah but Jesus was against Pharisees, Sadducees, and basically all the religious leaders. He destroyed the temple because they were misusing it and he called them hypocrites and all that.
Martin Luther and John Calvin have left us extensive writings and transcripts of sermons relating to the 16th century Reformation movements. These sources can say more than I can, and all are downloadable free of © restrictions. In no wise should you think me an expert on theological matters; I’m just a lay believer. Hence I’d urge you to go to the authorities instead of taking my word for it.
Unfortunately, the mid-1st century beginnings of Christianity are obscure, with little data outside the New Testament, or from those pastoral documents not canonized, all of which must be considered less reliable due to their polemical goals.
The life of Jesus Christ himself is almost totally unknown, although the gospels make it clear he conducted an itinerant ministry in Palestine and was crucified at Jerusalem shortly before Paul began his missionary journeys and letter writing. As a Christian, I also believe Jesus rose from the dead. The temple, incidentally, was destroyed in 70 CE by General Vespasian as part of a Jewish-Roman war fought over tax issues and Jewish distaste for the increasing Hellenization of their territory. The Jews have never built another temple since that time.
Blessings to you.~  |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jan 17, 2018 11:40:17 GMT
Nah. I studied Martin Luther in history and know a bit of Calvin. Not reading that stuff since it's not inspired by God like scripture is. My church forbids going into thatt route too.
The temple will be rebuilt later though but they still do religious services today.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jan 17, 2018 12:04:34 GMT
Nah. I studied Martin Luther in history and know a bit of Calvin. Not reading that stuff since it's not inspired by God like scripture is. My church forbids going into thatt route too. The temple will be rebuilt later though but they still do religious services today. Irenaeus is not from God!? ! His teacher is a disciple of John the Apostle ! Calvin and Luther lived in the 16th century. Christianity began earlier! Let me remind you, if it were not for Irenaeus and his school, in Gallia(Calvin's homeland) there would be no Christianity at all! That's why we need to know the history of the church from early times to our days! |
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amenemhab
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Post by amenemhab on Jan 17, 2018 12:10:35 GMT
...Jewish law and Jesus' law. Apostles finally called themselves Christian in beginning of Acts...
The author of Luke, very likely a Pauline gentile Christian, composed Acts around the time members of the new faith, which the Romans viewed as a destructive and threatening cult, began calling themselves Christians. Soon, lions were mauling Christians to death for entertainment in the coliseums. It wasn’t easy to be a Christian in those early days, yet most of them managed to avoid the lions and work at spreading the gospels.
Why, Rome even had a convenient, capacious sewer system under its streets, which early congregants used to hold services out of view of Rome’s spies. Worship and communion dinners were also held in private homes. The Johannine tradition, meanwhile, spread into Egypt to become the Coptic Church, where Coptic, the final stage of ancient Egyptian language, is still preserved in liturgy. While Islamic terrorists would bomb St. Paul’s & St. Peter’s Church in Cairo December 11, 2016, killing about 25 people and wounding at least 200, the Coptics of Roman and Byzantine days were not molested, nor even did the Muslim armies entering Egypt in 641 CE attempt to suppress them—Arabization and Islamization of Egypt took nearly 400 years to complete.
Christianity’s message had broad appeal, to the middle classes and to the poor. The Romans couldn’t stop it. By the end of the 2nd century, despite on-again, off-again waves of persecution, bishops were openly conducting masses in purpose-built edifices. Often, church officers also held positions of trust and power in Roman municipal administration. Constantine, bowing to reality, ratified the religion in 316 CE and state sponsorship followed. |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jan 17, 2018 12:28:44 GMT
Nah. I studied Martin Luther in history and know a bit of Calvin. Not reading that stuff since it's not inspired by God like scripture is. My church forbids going into thatt route too. The temple will be rebuilt later though but they still do religious services today. Irenaeus is not from God!? ! His teacher is a disciple of John the Apostle ! Calvin and Luther lived in the 16th century. Christianity began earlier! Let me remind you, if it were not for Irenaeus and his school, in Gallia(Calvin's homeland) there would be no Christianity at all! That's why we need to know the history of the church from early times to our days! Martin Luther was like Joseph Smith. He made a new religion. And Calvin...he's like Jehovah Witnesses almost. My church rejects them both. Christianity isn't from Irenaeus. Christianity is from Jesus. Who this Irenaeus anyway? |
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amenemhab
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Post by amenemhab on Jan 17, 2018 13:36:40 GMT
Martin Luther was like Joseph Smith. He made a new religion. And Calvin...he's like Jehovah Witnesses almost. My church rejects them both. Christianity isn't from Irenaeus... Who this Irenaeus anyway?
It’s said that Luther’s religious path began in 1505 while he was a graduate student at the University of Erfurt, when he’d nearly been electrocuted by lightning during a thunderstorm which caught him out in the open on horseback. He entered St. Augustine’s Monastery at this point. By 1517 he was so disgusted by the Roman Church’s slide toward mammon that he mailed his objections to the Vatican, soon embroiled in a contest of wills that would lead to his condemnation by Johann Eck at the Diet of Worms in 1521.
It’s a mistake to identify churches and movements with the visionaries whose work inspires them. Starting a new religious establishment requires administrative and fundraising skills rarely possessed by visionaries. In Jesus’s case, his Jewish detractors got to him first, persuading Pilate to order him executed. Luther went into hiding, survived, and worked with the organizers, fundraisers and bean counters who engineered the Lutheran Church.
Likewise, while Joseph Smith dictated the Book of Mormon’s text and got martyred, along with his brother Hyrum, at the Carthage jail in 1844, it fell to Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery and others to do the work of financing publication of the BOM and construction of the religion’s first meeting house. Upon moving the group to Kirtland, Ohio they had built a temple as well.
True, Christianity didn’t originate with Irenaeus, but if you wanna know who he was, Google his name. I’m old enough to remember the pre-computer era when such research took more time, and a trip to a good library. I don’t know which church you belong to. You’re leaving me the impression it takes an anti-intellectual stance, rejecting all but the teachings of the pastors in polyester suits running the place. That’s your right in the USA, and your choice. I do have strong feelings about those who want to turn back the country’s social clock, however. |
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jan 17, 2018 13:47:46 GMT
I wonder if Luther know have learned that his teachings would cause the Thirty Years' War in Europe , he would have started the Reformation?  |
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amenemhab
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Post by amenemhab on Jan 17, 2018 14:09:41 GMT
I wonder if Luther know have learned that his teachings would cause the Thirty Years' War in Europe , he would have started the Reformation?
For once the 1618 Defenestration of Prague had started affairs, it was France, Holland, the Habsburg empire, the Vatican States, Poland-Lithuania and Sweden who would broaden the contretemps, inflating it to a pan-European war eventually to claim more than 8 million lives. It was the first world war, you might say, inaugurating a tradition of such that included the Napoleonic Wars and the World Wars I and II, raising the number of gravestones to 50 million or more and bringing Russia, then Asia, into the picture. |
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jan 17, 2018 14:33:38 GMT
Yes, it is clear that in Europe there were many contradictions, but the religious question turned out to be decisive in this situation!
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amenemhab
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Post by amenemhab on Jan 17, 2018 15:47:03 GMT
Yes, it is clear that in Europe there were many contradictions, but the religious question turned out to be decisive in this situation!
But you’re right. Contradictions run rife. We could start with the contradictions of capitalism Marx and Engels had pointed out in 1848. Then we have total oxymorons in Christianity such as Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas, with its infamous headlines of “God hates faggs; God hates US soldiers in Iraq.” Don’t I recall Jesus bidding the little children to come to his knee, telling us, “Of such is the kingdom of heaven made?” Or is my memory gone bad already?
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, you see, because they denied the resurrection of the dead. The Pharisees loved to “enlarge the borders” of their expensive garments. The temple was making money hand over fist on the backs of the poor.
