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Post by greatestiam on May 16, 2020 13:35:12 GMT
God given rights. Do you really have any?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.
If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.
To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.
Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?
Regards DL
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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 22, 2020 16:56:44 GMT
He's a hateful troll and will destroy this religious sub-forum, which is his goal, in order to prevent others from following Christ. He is demonically influenced and uses bible verses to make apostates out of believers or would-be believers. The problem is NOT that he does not believe in God; he does. The problem is that he HATES God and serves the dark prince of this world, his spiritual father, Satan. Jesus warned you about guys like him. Mathew 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. Your bible is clear that genocidal characters are evil, yet you call yours good. And you have the gall to tell me I am wrong to condemn your genocidal prick of a god and honor his vile homophobic and misogynous religion. Come and argue for him and his genocidal ways instead of running away and backstabbing people whose morals exceed your satanic level quite easily. Moral cowards like you are garbage religionists who call evil good. You are right to fear me and all moral people. All you Satanists should. Regards DL I gave you a warning about breaking the insult rule. Every so often we get uneducated people who can't read nor comprehend rules. I'll be happy to chat with you on all the rules and how to act moral around other people if you'd like after your ban. Enjoy your vacation.
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Sept 22, 2020 20:59:53 GMT
Don't they all turn out to be angry gay men? I'm not surprised. For a gay man, you are really stupid. They put love above sex, and here you are putting sex above love. For a gay guy, you show a strange moral sense. Your religion has corrupted your morals. Regards DL I'm not gay. Learn to read for Christ's sake.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Sept 23, 2020 16:51:24 GMT
This guy seems to follow the wrong logic, the more precisely – the fallacy called u Hasty Generalisation:
All the Christians I have met hate gay people, therefore, All the Christians hate gay people.
This is an invalid argument, cause the antecedent doesn't necessary imply the consequent.
It's easier to ignore such logic, or else such a talk will continue forever.
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Post by greatestiam on Oct 21, 2020 19:42:19 GMT
This guy seems to follow the wrong logic, the more precisely – the fallacy called u Hasty Generalisation: All the Christians I have met hate gay people, therefore, All the Christians hate gay people. This is an invalid argument, cause the antecedent doesn't necessary imply the consequent. It's easier to ignore such logic, or else such a talk will continue forever. You make up something and try to apply it to me. Only a pathetic piece of moral garbage will ignore all the harm religions bring to gays and women. Regards DL
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Oct 22, 2020 7:50:46 GMT
I'm afraid you're wrong here. Indeed, Christ spend time with fishermen, hookers (Maria Magdalena was supposed to be), tax-takers and some criminals. He spoiled ttaditions not once: eating prohibited food, not praying before eating, and nany others. What he was teaching was kinda weird and really strange for the time. Morality was what phariseans did pray. And as you know Christ hated their opened hypocrisy, because they claim to be holding morality, but instead they did not. Catholic now live by turned morality, and some Protestants do. They had lost that courage which Christ had. Morality is what lasts when the central believe is lost: a man thinks that to continue his habits is to honour traditions. However, fools cannot keep any traditions – they aren't able to keep anything. I am homophobic. Why should I need to support perverted govt intentions? Besides if some richs are tired to have normal sex and have started to take themselves as gods, then dash them twice! and their twisted unhealthy ideas! No sane person have twisted perverted views. You put sex above love and think that the right thing to do, while ignoring that Jesus put love above sex. Not that you care what a moral person would do. Regards DL Look, if it was possible for people making love without body – I would agree with you. Moreover, I don't deny there cannot be no love between males and womens in a way, for instance, "Symposium" of Plato provides. I highly recommend you to read or to listen it, because there might be some common points – the points of agreement – between Christians and the others (pagans, mainly). So, depending on how to take it. But if you wouldn't be so angry at Christianity you might be less close-minded about many problems Christianity rises.
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The Cathar
New Member
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Philosophy: Stoic Asceticism
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Post by The Cathar on Oct 28, 2020 19:15:12 GMT
I do not believe there are any rights that are 'God-given'. 'Rights' are a construct of society by which we interact with one another- preferably in a civil manner- and we observe these protocols to ensure our society runs smoothly.
From a different perspective, as I do not believe this world (our Material Universe) was created by God, it follows that any 'rights' that might have been granted would not come from him anyway.
As such, we have no real 'rights' other than those we can secure for ourselves or secure as part of a group.
And keep in mind that any 'rights' granted by law can be taken away by law.
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Post by greatestiam on Nov 8, 2020 17:50:29 GMT
You put sex above love and think that the right thing to do, while ignoring that Jesus put love above sex. Not that you care what a moral person would do. Regards DL Look, if it was possible for people making love without body – I would agree with you. Moreover, I don't deny there cannot be no love between males and womens in a way, for instance, "Symposium" of Plato provides. I highly recommend you to read or to listen it, because there might be some common points – the points of agreement – between Christians and the others (pagans, mainly). So, depending on how to take it. But if you wouldn't be so angry at Christianity you might be less close-minded about many problems Christianity rises. If you were more angry against homophobia and misogyny and a genocidal prick of a god, you would be more closed minded to fools that continue to follow such an immoral creed. You prefer to follow Satan and glorify mass murder. Regards DL
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Post by jonbain on Nov 8, 2020 18:19:49 GMT
God given rights. Do you really have any? We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government. If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty. To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached. Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none? Regards DL Very good question.
The origin of the word 'right' in this context was actually a 'writ'. It originated with monarchies, so if a King gave you a 'writ' (or right). for example, to a horse, you could go to any of the royal stables,
show your scroll, with his seal, and the stable-hands were
obliged to give you a horse.
In this context, a 'right' is simply a written promise that others are obliged to fulfill. The word 'inalienable' is a little problematic in that there is a dif between it 'should' not be taken away, and it physically 'cannot' be taken away. So there are two quite dif types of rights here.
The absolute divine inalienable right, is the free will to make better moral choices over worse ones. We also have the right to attempt to defend morality. The biblical example is Job, who loses everything, but never loses his faith, and thus regains more besides.
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Post by greatestiam on Nov 9, 2020 16:14:43 GMT
God given rights. Do you really have any? We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government. If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty. To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached. Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none? Regards DL Very good question.
The origin of the word 'right' in this context was actually a 'writ'. It originated with monarchies, so if a King gave you a 'writ' (or right). for example, to a horse, you could go to any of the royal stables,
show your scroll, with his seal, and the stable-hands were
obliged to give you a horse.
In this context, a 'right' is simply a written promise that others are obliged to fulfill. The word 'inalienable' is a little problematic in that there is a dif between it 'should' not be taken away, and it physically 'cannot' be taken away. So there are two quite dif types of rights here.
The absolute divine inalienable right, is the free will to make better moral choices over worse ones. We also have the right to attempt to defend morality. The biblical example is Job, who loses everything, but never loses his faith, and thus regains more besides.
On free will. You do not have it says scriptures. Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design? Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link. Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us. The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures. If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith? Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm? Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please? I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed. Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did. What is your choice of those two options? Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars. I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians. What do you think is the truth? Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe? -------------- On Job. Strange that you would think he came out ahead, after having to suffer the death of his children. Job 2;3 has Yahweh admitting to being moved by Satan to do evil, yet you see that evil as good. That is not surprising given that you think a genocidal prick of a god like Yahweh is a good god. What the hell is wrong with you and you immoral thinking? Regards DL
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Post by jonbain on Nov 9, 2020 23:00:25 GMT
Very good question.
The origin of the word 'right' in this context was actually a 'writ'. It originated with monarchies, so if a King gave you a 'writ' (or right). for example, to a horse, you could go to any of the royal stables,
show your scroll, with his seal, and the stable-hands were
obliged to give you a horse.
In this context, a 'right' is simply a written promise that others are obliged to fulfill. The word 'inalienable' is a little problematic in that there is a dif between it 'should' not be taken away, and it physically 'cannot' be taken away. So there are two quite dif types of rights here.
The absolute divine inalienable right, is the free will to make better moral choices over worse ones. We also have the right to attempt to defend morality. The biblical example is Job, who loses everything, but never loses his faith, and thus regains more besides.
On free will. You do not have it says scriptures. Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design? Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link. Those quotes seems to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us. The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures. If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith? Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm? Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please? I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed. Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did. What is your choice of those two options? Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars. I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians. What do you think is the truth? Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe? -------------- On Job. Strange that you would think he came out ahead, after having to suffer the death of his children. Job 2;3 has Yahweh admitting to being moved by Satan to do evil, yet you see that evil as good. That is not surprising given that you think a genocidal prick of a god like Yahweh is a good god. What the hell is wrong with you and you immoral thinking? Regards DL the vital piece of the scripture you are missing is John14:12 "who believes in me will do greater things than i have done" - and that is Jesus talking, btw
if one read the bible dogmatically, ignoring that verse, you could reach all the fatalistic conclusions that you have
all manner of obstacles the God puts in our path make life what it is - one of over-coming - you seem to not appreciate the idea that the soul is immortal, and thus death is just another obstacle -
and so too is all suffering
my own reading ~ as a mystic ~ includes the Vedic ideas of reincarnation and karma - so much suffering is a return on past life actions - but all can be redeemed - if they choose the right path
its fairly easy to see that all suffering is thus illusion
but to return to obstacles - imagine the perfect movie / novel / computer game where would star wars be without Darth Vader?
try and manufacture a perfect universe in such a narrative that does not have obstacles of suffering to overcome
you simply will not be able to
there are no stars without a backdrop of pitch darkness and in the infinite multiverse
all possible existences must exist
so we go thru these, and are told that strife is like the process of metallurgy - it purifies the soul to gold
is there something bothering you in YOUR direct life? maybe i can help perhaps you have some subconscious unresolved conflict that is causing your distress
everything that lives, dies and death is that which makes love all the more poignant
the bible was not meant to be perfect, that would make you and i redundant and that is why Christ gave us the message in John 14:12
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Post by greatestiam on Nov 21, 2020 18:43:18 GMT
So you would intentionally put obstacles in front of your children.
Your an ass hole.
Then again, like your prick of a god, whom you applaud for trying to put the obstacle of lack of all knowledge in the tree of knowledge, in front of A & E, you seem to not love your children.
You are like your genocidal prick of a god.
Regards DL
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 21, 2020 19:10:59 GMT
So you would intentionally put obstacles in front of your children. Your an ass hole. Then again, like your prick of a god, whom you applaud for trying to put the obstacle of lack of all knowledge in the tree of knowledge, in front of A & E, you seem to not love your children. You are like your genocidal prick of a god. Regards DL Watch it please. You did so well in the post before this one not meaning to offend. Agree to disagree. It's not a big deal. But speaking of obstacles....I'll use science here for this since I work in behavioral health and it uses science based evidence. Putting obstacles or as my work calls it "small demands" on the child the right way it has been proven to help them grow and learn and achieve things. It's needed for better adaption to function as a species otherwise those that cannot die out. It's like natural selection. If one does not learn the skill to feed themselves they'll die out and those who learn to do things get to live. There were even female hunters in the past. I wonder if they realized that their spouse or whoever was no longer in the position to hunt and that they had to overcome this obstacle by hunting themselves to live and carry on. I may be off topic on the obstacles part since I didn't read jonbains quote just saw your part where you didn't like obstacles for children but it's needed especially those with autism or other disabilities who must at times work harder than their peers to live and function well in life.
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Post by joustos on Nov 21, 2020 20:35:50 GMT
God given rights. Do you really have any? We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government. If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty. To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached. Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as Letto ignore that we have none? Regards DL I think we discussed this issue before, but I don't mind reiterating my views. To begin with, we must be clear as to what we mean by "right(s)".Secondly, it is not clear whether Jefferson is speaking of rights or of entitlements. Is he saying that humans are entitled to be alive, or that humans have the right to protect or enhance their lives [just as they have the God-given right to pursue happiness]? Let's leave Jefferson aside for the moment. Rights, as you actually imply, are correlative to duties. This is totally clear when we consider contracts that are made between people, such as: I am giving you $100 on your promise to make and deliver to me a pair of such-and-such shoes within four months. The shoemaker assumes the duty to produce and deliver, while the payer assumes the right to receive the ordered shoes. (A contract also specifies whether the payment is a down-payment for the shoes, or a payment in consideration of the made promise; and whether the duty is on "word of honor" or is enforceable by judicial authorities.) Anyway, contractual rights and duties exist by the will, the stipulations, of the parties, neither by human nature, nor by grants from God or from political authorities. [Courts do not adjudicate the substance of a contract.] Civil Rights, the rights of the citizens of a republic, are also contractural/stipulatory in nature: the citizens, who are free or freed persons, swear to maintain and protect their collective and individual freedom (not to commit crimes against each other). Civil rights are freedoms, not entitlements, and not grants by God or by governments. [Roman Jurisprudence determines the criminality of an act.]
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Post by joustos on Nov 22, 2020 18:36:39 GMT
I am not really in the mood to make an exegesis of the so-called Sacred Scriptures (ridiculously called the Old and the New Testaments/Covenants) in order to determine whether the Scriptural God or Gods (Elohim) endowed humans with rights, etc., but I already know enough to say that the scriptural Yahweh ordered/commanded Moses and the Israelites (whom He claimed to have freed from Egypt) to recognize only one God --only Himself, and not the Elohim or the many gods of the Gentiles. Moses himself was destined not to see the Promised Land, because he had married, of all people, the daughter of a polytheistic priest. Yahwh also commanded them not to commit various crimes, such as lusting after somebody elses' wife. Anyway, that God never endowed His chosen People or other persons, with rights, unless His "Grow and multiply" be considered a God- given right, or a commandment, rather than a scripture-writer's advice after concocting the story that Yahweh produced only one man and one woman. How else could the contemporaneous multiplicity of humans be explained to the children of the Israelites who were being taught the word of God? All the writers of the Sacred Scriptures did amazing things!
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Post by greatestiam on Dec 7, 2020 19:32:28 GMT
"All the writers of the Sacred Scriptures did amazing things!"
Indeed. They wrote what would confuse so many Christians into the adoration of a genocidal satanic god.
Satan 2 --- Yahweh -1.
Regards DL
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