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Post by warriors4 on Sept 24, 2019 19:22:26 GMT
Hi religion is a massive part of peoples beliefs all over the world I'd like to say there are so many contradictive laws passages and beliefs in all forms my first post on this matter will start with a belief that all life is sacred a d precious were all equal yet in so much of Christian history that isnt the case in Christianity it is said that we are all gods children he loves all equally yet in our history we have subjected other religions and wiped out whole tribes for not following or believing our ways ie crusades and forcing tribal people from all around the to follow or be slaughtered not just christianity other such religions have the same blood on there hands we hear so much from the church that God forgives our sins but yet he punishes thos who sinned for example should someone who cant afford to feed there family and the only way to do that is steal a loaf of bread so his hers family can live in that scenario should that person be punished for eternity for wanting the basic instinct to protect and keep his hers family alive should God punish them for giving them instinct and love for there family yet it's already to kill people in the name of god yet some beliefs say if you take your own life you will spend eternity in purgatory hows that loving if for example a young child who has been severely bullied or worse sees no other choice to end there suffering should they suffer more in eternal purgatory would love some feedback and other people opinions on the subject ?
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Post by fschmidt on Sept 24, 2019 21:52:43 GMT
Where in the Bible does it say that all life is sacred?
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Sept 25, 2019 1:54:49 GMT
To be fair show me a philosophy or science with no contradiction in it.
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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 25, 2019 4:46:15 GMT
Where does purgatory exist? Bible mentions no such place of this. Is this from a pagan religion? But if you go strictly by Scripture there is no contradiction. What religion or denomination has contradiction? If there is one then my best suggestion is to abandon it. It's fake. With God there won't be contradiction. It will make no sense with contradictions.
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Post by warriors4 on Sept 25, 2019 6:07:04 GMT
Purgatory is neither heaven nor hell its oblivion nothingness the Catholics believe in it strongly and in the Christian faith it does state life is sacred there are many forms and variations on the bible each sect has there own jehovah witness they strongly belief there is no heaven or hell that when you pass you simply return to the earth that death is just a long sleep till the end of days when God banishes and destroys evil wipes it from existence and all who were good will be resurrected into a paradise no death disease but they also believe that all animals were friendly we all got along that predators such as lions didn't not hunt prey or kill which quite frankly is ridiculous predators are key source in nature to keep numbers down stop a species from over populating all livings things is food for another evolution plays its part by these animals evolving.mormons believe in 3 tiers of heaven depending on how good you were and that top tier is bliss and familys join together no sadness no bad at all the bottom tier is as we are now but how would that work if one family member is good the other bad also with jehovah witness they believe that all psychics mediums tarot cards anything occult is the devils work that God does not allow this its demons ways of corrupting Catholics believe and treat religion like choire very strict life is just black and white and that God is vengeful like when catholic women say I'm a God fearing women God should not be feared to use fear to keep obedience and faith I would of thought that more the devils work and yes theres contradictions and double standards in science to true Christian's dont believe in gravity and the world is a little over 6000 years old yet we know otherwise there prove actually solid prove and gravity is the strongest force in the universe it keeps the universe together other religions to personally I think religion and belief in God was our ancestors ways of trying to understand the world make sense of our existence we cant take the bible to seriously in the days of jesus when it all began very few people could read or write most of the bible is hear say and written hundreds of years later by monks in monasterys who even then were the very few who could read or write but in all myths legends and storys theres always some element of truth but like chineses whispers the more the storys told the more people say it the less original it becomes
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Sept 25, 2019 6:10:58 GMT
Hi religion is a massive part of peoples beliefs all over the world I'd like to say there are so many contradictive laws passages and beliefs in all forms my first post on this matter will start with a belief that all life is sacred a d precious were all equal yet in so much of Christian history that isnt the case in Christianity it is said that we are all gods children he loves all equally yet in our history we have subjected other religions and wiped out whole tribes for not following or believing our ways ie crusades and forcing tribal people from all around the to follow or be slaughtered not just christianity other such religions have the same blood on there hands we hear so much from the church that God forgives our sins but yet he punishes thos who sinned for example should someone who cant afford to feed there family and the only way to do that is steal a loaf of bread so his hers family can live in that scenario should that person be punished for eternity for wanting the basic instinct to protect and keep his hers family alive should God punish them for giving them instinct and love for there family yet it's already to kill people in the name of god yet some beliefs say if you take your own life you will spend eternity in purgatory hows that loving if for example a young child who has been severely bullied or worse sees no other choice to end there suffering should they suffer more in eternal purgatory would love some feedback and other people opinions on the subject ? Most of the "contradictory beliefs" you mentioned are not contradictory beliefs but a dissonance between what the Bible says and what some "Christians" do. According to Jesus Christ those people wouldn't be true Christians because they do not follow Christ or the Bible.
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Post by warriors4 on Sept 25, 2019 6:25:02 GMT
Who's to say who's right who's wrong in the bible the one followed by most Christian's the biggest selling and most widely accepted book it say God is infallible he does not lie trick or deceive and does not change is mind yet in the beginnings God was vengeful he destroyed whole citys brought floods almost wiped his creation out(us) to start again now not everyone in them citys or at the time of Noah was bad but all got punished theres a well known story in the bible of God telling a father to take his first born and only son to the top of a mountain to sacrifice him to God to show his devotion and faith and loyalty just before the father fulfilled gods wish he was then told to stop that God was testing his faith etc now to me that's a lie he deceived the father just to see if he would do such a thing to show him his love for God to me personally that would be something the devil would do today that would be known as psychological cruelty a form of as we know it a God complex hence the saying
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Post by joustos on Sept 25, 2019 14:53:03 GMT
Where does purgatory exist? Bible mentions no such place of this. Is this from a pagan religion? But if you go strictly by Scripture there is no contradiction. What religion or denomination has contradiction? If there is one then my best suggestion is to abandon it. It's fake. With God there won't be contradiction. It will make no sense with contradictions. The principle of non-contradiction [an ontological principle] can be stated thus: Any entity (any real subject) cannot both have and a lack a predicate such as Goodness, Power to control something else, Consciousness, etc. [The epistemological principle can be stated thus: If contradictory predicates are made of a subject, that, e.g., X is Good and Not Good, then the speaker is stating a nonsense; he or an error about a particular subject in a book does not invalidate every other subject in the book, but it shows that the book's author is fallible. The books of the various religions were produced by humans even though they may claim infallibility (as by claiming that they are reports of an infallible speaker). This claim cannot be substantiated and the report remains a mere "hearsay". As to some religions: -- The Hebrew Bible contains two contradictory reports about the divine reality: (A) The "Syrian" Canaanite, or Ugarit, version, according to which there are the Elohim [the Gods or Supreme Gods] who made Man in their own image, one male and the other female, plus foreign gods (whose sons will eventually consort with human females) and the gods of the Philistines. (B) The four-letter God, named Yahweh [Ieie], the God proclaimed by Moses (from a non-Canaanite background), male. This was to be the only God for the Judaeans, also called Yahweh Elohim [the divine Yah] translated into Latin as "Dominus Deus" (the "Lord God" in the British version). -- Allah is the only God and Mohammed is His prophet. Thus spoke Zarathustra. No, no. I mixed religions. Make your own analysis of the Arabian insanity. -- The Pauline Christology is at odds with the New Testament's attribution of the mission of Jesus (to rescue the strayed sheep, or, more importantly, to undo the consequences of the original sin)…. Atonment of the Sin? Death is the wages of sin, and death still occurs for those who having been baptized, are made holy again....
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Sept 25, 2019 17:07:11 GMT
Everyone: the key word is "contradiction. Show me a religion or philosophy or science which does not contain a contradiction.
Second it is assumed contradiction is bad, but this is a contradiction.
Joustos the principles of identity are pagan assertions with the grounding of identity, P=P, being circular. If "P=ALL" then we are left with equivocation and slippery slope negating the principles as well due to there dependence on variables.
Lily: Scripture doe not say scripture alone, thus you are making an outside assumption and acting like the Catholic Faith you are condemning.
Finally: Near death experiences justify all (heaven, hell, purgatory, reincarnation) as true. Hell is not a state of real "nothingness", according to many of these experiences but a continual state of being torn apart and put back together again (through flame, monsters, etc.). Most near death experiences are a feedback loop of the beliefs and judgements we have here. One story comes to mind of a hindu dying, meeting his Gods, halving his legs removed and put back on by these gods, only to be sent back to earth with scars occuring where the legs where reattached.
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Post by warriors4 on Sept 25, 2019 19:23:40 GMT
Very interesting I do agree that the bible is written by man which I touched upon a story from jesuses time would be told completely different bits added bits taken out I do not condemn the catholic faith no one faith one religion can be proven to absolute it's down to the individual to decide what religion he or she takes the one thing we should all agree on is that God gave us free will to think to decide for ourselfs he left up to us either believe or not that's a main reason for the war in the heavens angel battling angel and how the fallen were cast out and partly how lucipher reigned over hell he in a way was jealous that we were given the choice and he wasnt like a spoilt child he turned angry and frustrated and rebelled against his father but when all is said and done no matter how hard we search no matter how much faith we have or dont no living human can truly be 100% sure the exact origins of the one true God or existence of heaven yes as you stated there is logged evedince of people having near death experiences and seeing the light feeling the warmth hearing family members but all that can be attributed to lack of oxygen and other such physical symptoms also known of people having near death experiences coming back and seeing the future even seeing the darker side as in hell I'm not saying it's not real to do so would be irresponsible and dismissive of peoples beliefs and experiences I do strongly believe there is a greater power we do not understand or as of yet fully comprehend there is to much hard evedince to support the principle idea even science are starting to uncover possible proof of life after death and miracles do happen more often the people realise science religion and spiritualism funnily enough go hand in hand religion as in the faith in something beyond our understand spiritualism as in the practice of knowing ourself and our place in the universe and the grand scheme of things and science as in the practicality of solving and proving fact from fiction in my experience and as I stated very earlier on these are my opinions my believes I do not expect others to follow or even agree I goes as far as to say I'd rather they didn't different ideas different believes in all aspects of life not just religion is what makes this world interesting and no one person should be persecuted or mocked for having different ideas and beliefs it's how knowledge is sort thinking outside the box listening to other seeking new knowledge new ideas new ways no one person is right or wrong it's down to the individual but those who truly seek answers especially for the betterment of the planet and all living creatures would surely be someone open to all aspects even if it's not there own beliefs that's the greatest gift God has bestowed upon us but that's just my opinion I'm sure many disagree and I wouldn't want it any other way I do apologise tho if I've offended or upset anyone with what I've said was not my intentions I enjoy debating and learning others beliefs and such
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Post by warriors4 on Sept 25, 2019 19:26:58 GMT
Very interesting I do agree that the bible is written by man which I touched upon a story from jesuses time would be told completely different bits added bits taken out I do not condemn the catholic faith no one faith one religion can be proven to absolute it's down to the individual to decide what religion he or she takes the one thing we should all agree on is that God gave us free will to think to decide for ourselfs he left up to us either believe or not that's a main reason for the war in the heavens angel battling angel and how the fallen were cast out and partly how lucipher reigned over hell he in a way was jealous that we were given the choice and he wasnt like a spoilt child he turned angry and frustrated and rebelled against his father but when all is said and done no matter how hard we search no matter how much faith we have or dont no living human can truly be 100% sure the exact origins of the one true God or existence of heaven yes as you stated there is logged evedince of people having near death experiences and seeing the light feeling the warmth hearing family members but all that can be attributed to lack of oxygen and other such physical symptoms also known of people having near death experiences coming back and seeing the future even seeing the darker side as in hell I'm not saying it's not real to do so would be irresponsible and dismissive of peoples beliefs and experiences I do strongly believe there is a greater power we do not understand or as of yet fully comprehend there is to much hard evedince to support the principle idea even science are starting to uncover possible proof of life after death and miracles do happen more often the people realise science religion and spiritualism funnily enough go hand in hand religion as in the faith in something beyond our understand spiritualism as in the practice of knowing ourself and our place in the universe and the grand scheme of things and science as in the practicality of solving and proving fact from fiction in my experience and as I stated very earlier on these are my opinions my believes I do not expect others to follow or even agree I goes as far as to say I'd rather they didn't different ideas different believes in all aspects of life not just religion is what makes this world interesting and no one person should be persecuted or mocked for having different ideas and beliefs it's how knowledge is sort thinking outside the box listening to other seeking new knowledge new ideas new ways no one person is right or wrong it's down to the individual but those who truly seek answers especially for the betterment of the planet and all living creatures would surely be someone open to all aspects even if it's not there own beliefs that's the greatest gift God has bestowed upon us but that's just my opinion I'm sure many disagree and I wouldn't want it any other way I do apologise tho if I've offended or upset anyone with what I've said was not my intentions I enjoy debating and learning others beliefs and such
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Clovis Merovingian
Prestige/VIP
Elder
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 1,757
Meta-Ethnicity: Anglo-American
Ethnicity: Deep Southerner
Country: My State and my Region are my country
Region: The Deep South
Location: South Carolina
Ancestry: Gaelic (patrilineal), English, Ulster Scots/Scots Irish, Scottish, German, Swiss German, Swedish, Manx, Finnish, Norman French/Quebecois (distantly), Dutch (distantly)
Taxonomy: Borreby/Alpine/ Nordid mix
Y-DNA: R-S660/R-DF109
mtDNA: T1a1
Politics: Conservative
Religion: Christian
Hero: Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James K. Polk
Age: 30
Philosophy: I try to find out what is true as best I can.
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Sept 25, 2019 20:32:44 GMT
Who's to say who's right who's wrong in the bible the one followed by most Christian's the biggest selling and most widely accepted book it say God is infallible he does not lie trick or deceive and does not change is mind yet in the beginnings God was vengeful he destroyed whole citys brought floods almost wiped his creation out(us) to start again now not everyone in them citys or at the time of Noah was bad but all got punished theres a well known story in the bible of God telling a father to take his first born and only son to the top of a mountain to sacrifice him to God to show his devotion and faith and loyalty just before the father fulfilled gods wish he was then told to stop that God was testing his faith etc now to me that's a lie he deceived the father just to see if he would do such a thing to show him his love for God to me personally that would be something the devil would do today that would be known as psychological cruelty a form of as we know it a God complex hence the saying They were all bad according to the Bible. There's a part of the Bible in Genesis where God is telling Abraham about destroying Sodom and Gomorrah and Abraham asks God is he'll spare the city if there are ten innocent people in the city and God says yes. It might as well have said that if there was one innocent person it would've been the same. God does not destroy the guilty along with the innocent. You mention those destroyed in the flood but if you had read that part of the Bible you would know that the only person on earth that was righteous was Noah. In both the stories of Sodom and Gomorrah and the flood God did save the only innocent people involved, Lot and Noah. All of those cities and civilizations God destroyed were wicked civilizations that sacrificed their children by fire and were filled with murder, incest, cannibalism, and other sorts of horrors unimaginable to us today. God was perfectly just in killing them. God is just as well as loving and he would not be loving if he were not just. Regarding the story of Abraham it is later stated by Paul in the New Testament that Abraham had so much faith in God's promise that believed that God would raise Isaac from the dead (because God had promised many descendants through Isaac and he couldn't very well do that if he was dead). Abraham did not believe that he would lose anything or that his son would by sacrificing Isaac. Anyways, when you next respond please put periods in your sentences as it's kind of infuriating to read a long run on sentence every time you respond. Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to be helpful.
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Post by joustos on Sept 25, 2019 21:52:10 GMT
Everyone: the key word is "contradiction. Show me a religion or philosophy or science which does not contain a contradiction. Second it is assumed contradiction is bad, but this is a contradiction. Joustos the principles of identity are pagan assertions with the grounding of identity, P=P, being circular. If "P=ALL" then we are left with equivocation and slippery slope negating the principles as well due to there dependence on variables. Lily: Scripture doe not say scripture alone, thus you are making an outside assumption and acting like the Catholic Faith you are condemning. Finally: Near death experiences justify all (heaven, hell, purgatory, reincarnation) as true. Hell is not a state of real "nothingness", according to many of these experiences but a continual state of being torn apart and put back together again (through flame, monsters, etc.). Most near death experiences are a feedback loop of the beliefs and judgements we have here. One story comes to mind of a hindu dying, meeting his Gods, halving his legs removed and put back on by these gods, only to be sent back to earth with scars occuring where the legs where reattached. There is no issue as to whether contradiction is good or bad, but since you raise the issue:the contradiction of predicates is logically bad since the assertion of one predicate precludes the opposite predicate: If A is B, then A is not non-B, even though Hegel and others disagree, as they consider that A is variable in time, or (say the medievals) since A can be simultaneously both B and non-B in different respects. My point was that if one gives contradictory predicates of any subject, he is not giving any true knowledge of the subject. If the Bible says that the deity is a male and a female (the Elohim) and that the deity is simply a male (Yahweh), then it provides NO true knowledge. The term "Elohim" has been translated also as "the Deity", which is a grammatically singular noun and induces some minds to conclude or to assume that the Deity is one rather than many. This is an example of Fallacy: judging the nature of a subject from the nature of the subject's name.
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Post by xxxxxxxxx on Sept 25, 2019 23:32:59 GMT
Joustos: if my poor memory serves,"if" is the key word, scholars had a controversy as to whether elohim was plural in some cases and literally guessed, according to context, how to translate it.
Most likely God (Elohim) is both one and many...and there is no contradiction here.
Second God as masculine represents the active side of being, the non active passive side can be observed as the "image" (creation) as a variation of the male (active) as creation is seeded through movement.
Third all statements as contexts are contradictory as a partial truth, even a "logical" statement of 1+2=3 is a contradiction as it can mean a variety of things thus is subject to equivocation. So to say God is male may be true but it does not bar God as simultaneously female as well.
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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 26, 2019 0:11:44 GMT
Where does purgatory exist? Bible mentions no such place of this. Is this from a pagan religion? But if you go strictly by Scripture there is no contradiction. What religion or denomination has contradiction? If there is one then my best suggestion is to abandon it. It's fake. With God there won't be contradiction. It will make no sense with contradictions. The principle of non-contradiction [an ontological principle] can be stated thus: Any entity (any real subject) cannot both have and a lack a predicate such as Goodness, Power to control something else, Consciousness, etc. [The epistemological principle can be stated thus: If contradictory predicates are made of a subject, that, e.g., X is Good and Not Good, then the speaker is stating a nonsense; he or an error about a particular subject in a book does not invalidate every other subject in the book, but it shows that the book's author is fallible. The books of the various religions were produced by humans even though they may claim infallibility (as by claiming that they are reports of an infallible speaker). This claim cannot be substantiated and the report remains a mere "hearsay". As to some religions: -- The Hebrew Bible contains two contradictory reports about the divine reality: (A) The "Syrian" Canaanite, or Ugarit, version, according to which there are the Elohim [the Gods or Supreme Gods] who made Man in their own image, one male and the other female, plus foreign gods (whose sons will eventually consort with human females) and the gods of the Philistines. (B) The four-letter God, named Yahweh [Ieie], the God proclaimed by Moses (from a non-Canaanite background), male. This was to be the only God for the Judaeans, also called Yahweh Elohim [the divine Yah] translated into Latin as "Dominus Deus" (the "Lord God" in the British version). -- Allah is the only God and Mohammed is His prophet. Thus spoke Zarathustra. No, no. I mixed religions. Make your own analysis of the Arabian insanity. -- The Pauline Christology is at odds with the New Testament's attribution of the mission of Jesus (to rescue the strayed sheep, or, more importantly, to undo the consequences of the original sin)…. Atonment of the Sin? Death is the wages of sin, and death still occurs for those who having been baptized, are made holy again....
Paul and Jesus were exactly on the same page. They were both speaking of the second death which is hell. Jesus said not to worry about those who kill the body because they can't kill our soul which will live on in heaven. And Paul says the same that we will live again. Those who are in sin won't live again and after first earthly death will die the second death meaning they'll go to hell.
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