san4o
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Post by san4o on Mar 15, 2019 19:24:25 GMT
Have you ever wondered how your thoughts control your body? How are your thought even created? What is the physical universe that we interact with made of?
I wanted to share my thoughts on this subject and hear all of your thoughts as well!
I will not talk about spiritual things and philosophy so much and be concentrating more on practical and rational perspective.
If we delve in to physical universe, then we can find out that everything is built of the same small particles of energy that are just vibrating a bit differently. Molecules-atoms-electrons-pions-quarks the further we go, the more we can see that actually there is no “hard” matter and everything, as stated before, is made of tiny particles of energy that vibrate at a certain frequency. Your body and our planet and everything is “made” of the same stuff, that just acts a bit differently. This is one of the first big mysteries- How is everything separated in such a genius manner and all of these individual entities, parts and particles stay bound to the bigger physical world representation. How does these energy particles know to be bound together to make atoms that make our skin cells and adapt to the ever-changing everything?..
Ok, let’s leave this thought for a while and look in to the consciousness aspect. Our thoughts and reactions are electrical impulses that innervate our nerve cells. Through this neural network we manipulate our body, over time we learn to manipulate with our body better and better and some individuals achieve things that regular people can only dream about. Interesting phenomena is observed in this practice. Human abilities are limited, at least very educated people tell us that our muscles are capable of that and that and nothing more, and same goes for all the rest of our functions, BUT once in a while there comes someone who overcomes these limits and what is fascinating is that after one person has done it, more and more people appear who are able to do it. Like some sort of collective power-up or unlocking of potential. Where lays our true limit? This is exactly the question that I want to find out! Let’s go back a bit. Where does our mind live? There is no part of the brain that can produce a mind, there are many things that help our mind understand itself and the world around it, but our mind is not in our brain. Our mind can be influenced by our brain, but our brain is only the medium that connects our mind with this physical reality. So where is our mind? What is our mind? Who knows! And I think we are too primitive to try to understand it at the moment, but what we can try to understand is- How exactly our mind interacts with the physical reality? My thoughts are that our mind can create small specific energy impulses that create the reaction in our brain, so that means that our mind is capable of creating these impulses from nothing in this physical reality or it transfers some impulse from non-physical reality, where our mind exists, and delivers it to this one. This is the way how our mind has learned to interact with physical dimension effectively, through controlling our brains, that control our body. But can we create these impulses outside our brain? How strong of an impulse can we create? Can we create impulse strong enough to influence the structure of things around us? Maybe, maybe not! But I am quite sure that we are capable of much more.
Norms that have been accepted by public for our abilities, shape the way that we look at ourselves. There are a lot of stories about people with so called supernatural abilities, but I think they are not supernatural, we are all capable of them. The only issue is that we (our mind) needs to learn how to manipulate these impulses to achieve what we want. As a newborn baby learns everything he needs to know to take part in our society, trough falling and trying and not giving up, seeing examples all around him, so can we learn to do much more. Physical reality is actually just little particles of energy, and our mind can create energy impulses, so theoretically we can learn to influence reality itself. Of course it would take us a long time to get there through these small little breakthroughs that some special individuals achieve, but all of us need to embrace it and try to move in that direction if we want to get there. Energy likes to resonate and amplify when it is in contact with the same frequency. Our minds attract physical things that resonate with our thoughts. At least that is what I believe, so let’s think about what we think and what can we do to achieve greater and greater hights as individuals and as a human specie collectively. (sorry for the last sentence, I hope it does not sound like "cat herding", I am just passionate about this idea)
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san4o
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Post by san4o on Mar 18, 2019 7:12:31 GMT
It also links to conscious understanding, to imply that algorithms are insufficient for developing general intelligence. (This is a claim that needs to be justified, but I can elaborate on that at some later point.) There is currently a misconception that teh development of artificial intelligence is approaching what's referred to as the singularity, when AI becomes more intelligent than humans and may start improving on itself. This is a dead end. I'm sure one can accomplish a lot with algorithms, and already has, but in order to capture the essence of general intelligence, one needs to first understand and copy the biological processes that create the bridge between quantum uncertainty and consciousness. Before that is realised, one will continue to put all the resources into improving algorithms, rather than trying to isolate the mechanisms in the brain that allow for conscious understanding.
The mathematician Roger Penrose believes a part of the brain called microtubules has a structure that would allow for a quantum wave function to develop before collapsing. After he made this suggestion, some research on this has been done to investigate it. Here's the abstract from a scientific paper:
"The mechanism by which anesthetic gases selectively prevent consciousness and memory (sparing non-conscious brain functions) remains unknown. At the turn of the 20(th) century Meyer and Overton showed that potency of structurally dissimilar anesthetic gas molecules correlated precisely over many orders of magnitude with one factor, solubility in a non-polar, 'hydrophobic' medium akin to olive oil. In the 1980s Franks and Lieb showed anesthetics acted in such a medium within proteins, suggesting post-synaptic membrane receptors. But anesthetic studies on such proteins yielded only confusing results. In recent years Eckenhoff and colleagues have found anesthetic action in microtubules, cytoskeletal polymers of the protein tubulin inside brain neurons. 'Quantum mobility' in microtubules has been proposed to mediate consciousness. Through molecular modeling we have previously shown: (1) olive oil-like non-polar, hydrophobic quantum mobility pathways ('quantum channels') of tryptophan rings in tubulin, (2) binding of anesthetic gas molecules in these channels, and (3) capabilities for π-electron resonant energy transfer, or exciton hopping, among tryptophan aromatic rings in quantum channels, similar to photosynthesis protein quantum coherence. Here, we show anesthetic molecules can impair π-resonance energy transfer and exciton hopping in tubulin quantum channels, and thus account for selective action of anesthetics on consciousness and memory."
But I'm personally not very interested in the practical use, partly because of the ethical considerations. Given how humans behave, there's not way I'd actually want them to unlock the mystery of how to create consciousness in a lab. The reason why I'm interested in it, is because it goes against the modern view of man, as some kind of biological computer iwth flawed software. Realising that we're something substantially beyond that, allows for the individual to believe in itself.
Hmm.. wow.. didn't know about this research, sounds interesting. ButI think there is a bit of a misunderstanding, I too am not keen on humans trying to create AI and looking at human brain as just some supercomputer. My original post was/is ment to try to understand how can we unlock our own potential. Because if what I wrote is at least slighty consistent with how everything actually works, then we can try to conciously unlock our hidden possibilities. And if we could step in to an era where a lot of people would be able to affect matter and fundamental forces around them in a large enough manner that it would be measurable and actually usable and practical, then structure of our society would change and I think we could finaly be free of our modern day slavery where we are slaves to money and almost everyone is motivated by material gains |
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san4o
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Post by san4o on Mar 18, 2019 7:25:44 GMT
I don't know if I wold call it brain, but I am leaning towards intelligent design theory, because, frankly, I don't think there is a better, more logical explanation about everything.. You mean like a creator/God? Maybe, I personally think that there is God, but did He want for us to experience him through religion and rituals and being divided amongst ourselves and fighting for who is the one who knows God the best?... I don't know.. I think that love really is the answer and God could be this answer, but while most don't live or at least try to live in God's presence which is the ultimate expression of love, then nothing will change in the way that world and our society is operating now. Yes, earth is not paradise and suffering that we experience here actually helps us grow and apreciate things more and maybe this is the lesson here on earth, that we need to truly apreciate what God had offered us in the begining but what we chose for ourselves. Who knows. But by saying all that I am also not against an idea that there is non personal inteligence that is the underlining force that guides all the proceses of material plane. P.S. And this is allready quite a divergence from this topic and we can discus this question in PM if you are interested in discussing more things related to this, or just make a new thread |
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Post by karl on Mar 18, 2019 10:53:20 GMT
It also links to conscious understanding, to imply that algorithms are insufficient for developing general intelligence. (This is a claim that needs to be justified, but I can elaborate on that at some later point.) There is currently a misconception that teh development of artificial intelligence is approaching what's referred to as the singularity, when AI becomes more intelligent than humans and may start improving on itself. This is a dead end. I'm sure one can accomplish a lot with algorithms, and already has, but in order to capture the essence of general intelligence, one needs to first understand and copy the biological processes that create the bridge between quantum uncertainty and consciousness. Before that is realised, one will continue to put all the resources into improving algorithms, rather than trying to isolate the mechanisms in the brain that allow for conscious understanding.
The mathematician Roger Penrose believes a part of the brain called microtubules has a structure that would allow for a quantum wave function to develop before collapsing. After he made this suggestion, some research on this has been done to investigate it. Here's the abstract from a scientific paper:
"The mechanism by which anesthetic gases selectively prevent consciousness and memory (sparing non-conscious brain functions) remains unknown. At the turn of the 20(th) century Meyer and Overton showed that potency of structurally dissimilar anesthetic gas molecules correlated precisely over many orders of magnitude with one factor, solubility in a non-polar, 'hydrophobic' medium akin to olive oil. In the 1980s Franks and Lieb showed anesthetics acted in such a medium within proteins, suggesting post-synaptic membrane receptors. But anesthetic studies on such proteins yielded only confusing results. In recent years Eckenhoff and colleagues have found anesthetic action in microtubules, cytoskeletal polymers of the protein tubulin inside brain neurons. 'Quantum mobility' in microtubules has been proposed to mediate consciousness. Through molecular modeling we have previously shown: (1) olive oil-like non-polar, hydrophobic quantum mobility pathways ('quantum channels') of tryptophan rings in tubulin, (2) binding of anesthetic gas molecules in these channels, and (3) capabilities for π-electron resonant energy transfer, or exciton hopping, among tryptophan aromatic rings in quantum channels, similar to photosynthesis protein quantum coherence. Here, we show anesthetic molecules can impair π-resonance energy transfer and exciton hopping in tubulin quantum channels, and thus account for selective action of anesthetics on consciousness and memory."
But I'm personally not very interested in the practical use, partly because of the ethical considerations. Given how humans behave, there's not way I'd actually want them to unlock the mystery of how to create consciousness in a lab. The reason why I'm interested in it, is because it goes against the modern view of man, as some kind of biological computer iwth flawed software. Realising that we're something substantially beyond that, allows for the individual to believe in itself.
Hmm.. wow.. didn't know about this research, sounds interesting. ButI think there is a bit of a misunderstanding, I too am not keen on humans trying to create AI and looking at human brain as just some supercomputer. My original post was/is ment to try to understand how can we unlock our own potential. Because if what I wrote is at least slighty consistent with how everything actually works, then we can try to conciously unlock our hidden possibilities. And if we could step in to an era where a lot of people would be able to affect matter and fundamental forces around them in a large enough manner that it would be measurable and actually usable and practical, then structure of our society would change and I think we could finaly be free of our modern day slavery where we are slaves to money and almost everyone is motivated by material gains
Well, the thing is that what I believe it demonstrates is that the conscious mind influences matter, but only in its own realm. It's mind over matter that allows access to the inner, universal conceptualised world, out of reach for intelligence based on algorithms.
I think when you use the terms "usable" and "practical", you mean something beyond this. Perhaps a way to harness this power to influence matter in the external world. Well, if that is possible, it would require a physics that hasn't been discovered yet. What power to change the world would you like to possess?
It's the individual human that needs to liberate him/herself by increasing one's sense of awareness through connecting with the inner conceptualised world. That is what I would refer to if I used your formulation: "unlock our inner potential." But I suspect you meant something different by it. The transformation of the world depends on the individual liberating itself from within, and that only happens through the will to acquire insight. An individual who seeks an ever increased sense of awareness, will not be primarily motivated by material gains, as you put it.
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san4o
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Post by san4o on Mar 18, 2019 12:05:28 GMT
Well, the thing is that what I believe it demonstrates is that the conscious mind influences matter, but only in its own realm. It's mind over matter that allows access to the inner, universal conceptualised world, out of reach for intelligence based on algorithms.
I think when you use the terms "usable" and "practical", you mean something beyond this. Perhaps a way to harness this power to influence matter in the external world. Well, if that is possible, it would require a physics that hasn't been discovered yet. What power to change the world would you like to possess?
It's the individual human that needs to liberate him/herself by increasing one's sense of awareness through connecting with the inner conceptualised world. That is what I would refer to if I used your formulation: "unlock our inner potential." But I suspect you meant something different by it. The transformation of the world depends on the individual liberating itself from within, and that only happens through the will to acquire insight. An individual who seeks an ever increased sense of awareness, will not be primarily motivated by material gains, as you put it.
Way to harness this power to influence matter in the external world is exactly what I look forward if theory I wrote in the original post is not majorly flawed. The way I described the process, is not really against the laws of physics in my opinion, maybe only a bit against the underlying inteligent design laws that binds everything in its supposed form. For once it would be interesting spin on things if everyone who wanted could survive without consumption of food or water (they could do it for the pleasure of it, but it woulnd not be a necessity). Also control of our own aging process. I think if we had more time that we could spend without worldly worries we could stop running for posessions that we don't need and power that doesn't bring us anything. Maybe this is utopic world view, but I think a lot of people who try to be at the top of everyone do it because they want to achieve something grand before they inevitably die and if this death threat would be lifted then we could spend more time finding our real purpose. Both of these things are limited to controling our body functions which have been achieved by some already to some extent. But as I proposed, in theory we may influence everything around our body as well by creating energy impulses that affect the matter itself. This is allready more advanced level of external world manipulation and maybe it is not necessary, but it is still an interesting idea to fidle with. And to get back to the reason for my first post- what flaws do you see in my theory and what direction you think it should take if there is any usable parts? |
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Post by karl on Mar 18, 2019 23:41:58 GMT
Well, the thing is that what I believe it demonstrates is that the conscious mind influences matter, but only in its own realm. It's mind over matter that allows access to the inner, universal conceptualised world, out of reach for intelligence based on algorithms.
I think when you use the terms "usable" and "practical", you mean something beyond this. Perhaps a way to harness this power to influence matter in the external world. Well, if that is possible, it would require a physics that hasn't been discovered yet. What power to change the world would you like to possess?
It's the individual human that needs to liberate him/herself by increasing one's sense of awareness through connecting with the inner conceptualised world. That is what I would refer to if I used your formulation: "unlock our inner potential." But I suspect you meant something different by it. The transformation of the world depends on the individual liberating itself from within, and that only happens through the will to acquire insight. An individual who seeks an ever increased sense of awareness, will not be primarily motivated by material gains, as you put it.
Way to harness this power to influence matter in the external world is exactly what I look forward if theory I wrote in the original post is not majorly flawed. The way I described the process, is not really against the laws of physics in my opinion, maybe only a bit against the underlying inteligent design laws that binds everything in its supposed form. For once it would be interesting spin on things if everyone who wanted could survive without consumption of food or water (they could do it for the pleasure of it, but it woulnd not be a necessity). Also control of our own aging process. I think if we had more time that we could spend without worldly worries we could stop running for posessions that we don't need and power that doesn't bring us anything. Maybe this is utopic world view, but I think a lot of people who try to be at the top of everyone do it because they want to achieve something grand before they inevitably die and if this death threat would be lifted then we could spend more time finding our real purpose. Both of these things are limited to controling our body functions which have been achieved by some already to some extent. But as I proposed, in theory we may influence everything around our body as well by creating energy impulses that affect the matter itself. This is allready more advanced level of external world manipulation and maybe it is not necessary, but it is still an interesting idea to fidle with. And to get back to the reason for my first post- what flaws do you see in my theory and what direction you think it should take if there is any usable parts?
Well, judging by what you write both here and in the original post, it does sound like you're looking for ways to break energy conservation laws, and possibly also the second law of thermodynamics, which states that entropy always increases. Simply put, entropy is to go from high energy states to low energy states, which means that the universe will eventually suffer the death of everything turning into low energy photons. An oversimplified way of expressing it is that the universe is continuously moving from order to disorder.
Eating is by itself a process that increases entropy, and it has been suggested that it's one of the processes in the universe that most effectively does so. It's as if the very existence of life depends on increasing disorder in the universe. It's the same for running a car, where, for a short while, you harness energy of a high state to take you from one spot to another, but the end result is increasing entropy, which cannot be reversed. When someone erects a tall building, the building itself represnts order, but the process of building it has massively increased disorder. The more actively you are attempting to create order, the more disorder you actually create on a fundamental level.
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