|
Post by greatestiam on Feb 23, 2019 17:45:28 GMT
Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?
I don’t know what God or Satan’s game is, but God giving Satan dominion over our political/physical realm as well as the power to deceive our spiritual/religious realm in us all seems counterintuitive to what a good God would do.
It seems like God is giving Satan the advantage, in terms of our ability to think without deception or Satan’s undo interference.
Rev12;9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,
called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Why did God curse us with Satan and her minions?
It cannot be to give us free will as none of us have the free will to never sin. If we did have that, we would have some examples of people who never sinned.
On another tangent, scriptures say that God himself put’s lies/deception into his prophets and that he decides who will have faith or not by his doling out grace only to those he has pre-selected and thus denies other the ability to have faith or belief.
This biblical contradiction, strangely, refutes all that I put above on Satan. Can Christians clear up this contradiction?
Regards DL
|
|
|
Post by jonbain on Mar 30, 2019 21:32:30 GMT
It is in the link but I guess you do not want to discuss it and remain ignorant it.
Regards DL
My dear fellow. If you have a verse to discuss. Please just quote it. Vague references, will not suffice. I ain't jumpin' through your hoops, dawg. The Bible constantly implores people to do one thing, rather than another thing. Implicit in this, is that we choose one thing rather than another thing. If it was pre-ordained, there would be no point in telling us which are the better choices. You claim to be gnostic, but an unbeliever ?? Care to explain this paradox? Or is it just a bland contradiction?
|
|
|
Post by prophettom on Mar 30, 2019 22:18:18 GMT
It is in the link but I guess you do not want to discuss it and remain ignorant it.
Regards DL
My dear fellow. If you have a verse to discuss. Please just quote it. Vague references, will not suffice. I ain't jumpin' through your hoops, dawg. The Bible constantly implores people to do one thing, rather than another thing. Implicit in this, is that we choose one thing rather than another thing. If it was pre-ordained, there would be no point in telling us which are the better choices. You claim to be gnostic, but an unbeliever ?? Care to explain this paradox? Or is it just a bland contradiction? Like I said I am of God. And if you refuse the lessons I have laid out a lesson that is undeniable. You deny it even after you yourself prove him a liar. Than its on you. I am chosen and you are guessing. That is the bottom line. I fight Devils in person. You read a few stories. So here it is do as you please. After all it is your ass not mine! www.facebook.com/tomas.mccartney
|
|
|
Post by jonbain on Mar 31, 2019 19:25:15 GMT
My dear fellow. If you have a verse to discuss. Please just quote it. Vague references, will not suffice. I ain't jumpin' through your hoops, dawg. The Bible constantly implores people to do one thing, rather than another thing. Implicit in this, is that we choose one thing rather than another thing. If it was pre-ordained, there would be no point in telling us which are the better choices. You claim to be gnostic, but an unbeliever ?? Care to explain this paradox? Or is it just a bland contradiction? Like I said I am of God. And if you refuse the lessons I have laid out a lesson that is undeniable. You deny it even after you yourself prove him a liar. Than its on you. I am chosen and you are guessing. That is the bottom line. I fight Devils in person. You read a few stories. So here it is do as you please. After all it is your ass not mine! www.facebook.com/tomas.mccartneyI have read your narrative. And with all due respect, you err in assuming you understand my position on these matters. Not that I really blame you, because most people do just read stories...
|
|
Etu Malku
Full Member
Posts: 147
Likes: 25
Religion: Mercuræn-Luciferian
Philosophy: Western Left Hand Path
|
Post by Etu Malku on Apr 1, 2019 0:43:46 GMT
Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan? I don’t know what God or Satan’s game is, but God giving Satan dominion over our political/physical realm as well as the power to deceive our spiritual/religious realm in us all seems counterintuitive to what a good God would do. It seems like God is giving Satan the advantage, in terms of our ability to think without deception or Satan’s undo interference. Rev12;9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Why did God curse us with Satan and her minions? It cannot be to give us free will as none of us have the free will to never sin. If we did have that, we would have some examples of people who never sinned. On another tangent, scriptures say that God himself put’s lies/deception into his prophets and that he decides who will have faith or not by his doling out grace only to those he has pre-selected and thus denies other the ability to have faith or belief. This biblical contradiction, strangely, refutes all that I put above on Satan. Can Christians clear up this contradiction? Regards DL What gives you the idea that either one controls what you are thinking? I for one am certain that what I think is a product of my life experiences and genetic/neurological make-up. But that aside, Morgue in this video is nowhere debating which deity Yahweh or Satan controls our thinking. What he is saying is that in light of the atrocities commited by Yahweh, Yahweh appears to be an evil entity. Being that Morgue follows a version of Gnosticism this makes perfect sense. The Gnostics believed that the god of this world is what they refer to as the Demiurge, which is something of a malevolent entity and that there exists a true god (Abraxas) of all the universe who is a benevolent deity.
|
|
|
Post by prophettom on Apr 1, 2019 8:42:04 GMT
Like I said I am of God. And if you refuse the lessons I have laid out a lesson that is undeniable. You deny it even after you yourself prove him a liar. Than its on you. I am chosen and you are guessing. That is the bottom line. I fight Devils in person. You read a few stories. So here it is do as you please. After all it is your ass not mine! www.facebook.com/tomas.mccartneyI have read your narrative. And with all due respect, you err in assuming you understand my position on these matters. Not that I really blame you, because most people do just read stories... I teach facts. You seem to think it is your perspective that matters. It does yes. But Mine is truth from those who created us. You are guessing when you trying to make it fit YOUR NARRATIVE!
|
|
|
Post by greatestiam on Apr 3, 2019 15:42:55 GMT
It is in the link but I guess you do not want to discuss it and remain ignorant it.
Regards DL
My dear fellow. If you have a verse to discuss. Please just quote it. Vague references, will not suffice. I ain't jumpin' through your hoops, dawg. The Bible constantly implores people to do one thing, rather than another thing. Implicit in this, is that we choose one thing rather than another thing. If it was pre-ordained, there would be no point in telling us which are the better choices. You claim to be gnostic, but an unbeliever ?? Care to explain this paradox? Or is it just a bland contradiction? There is no contradiction if you define god properly and have not gone into intellectual dissonance by letting yourself foolishly believe that your myth is reality and that there is a supernatural realm.
Stevan Davies. The savior is not a celestial being brought to earth; the savior is a capacity of the mind, and the savior’s journey from above is actually one’s own journey from within.
John Lennon. It seems to me that the only true Christians were the Gnostics, who believed in self-knowledge, I.E. becoming Gods themselves, reaching the Christ within, the light is the truth. Turn on the light. All the better to see you my dear.
Regards DL
|
|
|
Post by greatestiam on Apr 3, 2019 15:48:43 GMT
Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan? I don’t know what God or Satan’s game is, but God giving Satan dominion over our political/physical realm as well as the power to deceive our spiritual/religious realm in us all seems counterintuitive to what a good God would do. It seems like God is giving Satan the advantage, in terms of our ability to think without deception or Satan’s undo interference. Rev12;9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Why did God curse us with Satan and her minions? It cannot be to give us free will as none of us have the free will to never sin. If we did have that, we would have some examples of people who never sinned. On another tangent, scriptures say that God himself put’s lies/deception into his prophets and that he decides who will have faith or not by his doling out grace only to those he has pre-selected and thus denies other the ability to have faith or belief. This biblical contradiction, strangely, refutes all that I put above on Satan. Can Christians clear up this contradiction? Regards DL What gives you the idea that either one controls what you are thinking? I for one am certain that what I think is a product of my life experiences and genetic/neurological make-up. But that aside, Morgue in this video is nowhere debating which deity Yahweh or Satan controls our thinking. What he is saying is that in light of the atrocities commited by Yahweh, Yahweh appears to be an evil entity. Being that Morgue follows a version of Gnosticism this makes perfect sense. The Gnostics believed that the god of this world is what they refer to as the Demiurge, which is something of a malevolent entity and that there exists a true god (Abraxas) of all the universe who is a benevolent deity.
You are correct in how we interpret the Christian Yahweh in the Christian myth. You are wrong in thinking that we read our myths literally and believe in them.
We wrote our myths to put against the Christian myth when all where intelligent enough to know not to read myths literally.
I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.
bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2
Further. www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html
Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.
"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."
Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.
Regards DL
|
|
|
Post by greatestiam on Apr 3, 2019 15:53:27 GMT
"Like I said I am of God." "I am chosen" You make two comments, as shown , that are confusing. If you are god, who chose you to be god?RegardsDL
|
|
|
Post by Eugene 2.0 on Apr 3, 2019 16:51:49 GMT
God created conditions of thinking. If He is the Lord, and we presume that Theism is true, and also, considering that God has an ability to influence on the time of his return to Earth, then God must be a master of any thoughts. I agree with Elizabeth that Devil is the one who is controlling the process of temptation over the world, at the same time I'm not sure that 'control' is using the right way in many ways. There must be a measure in control, and also we have to decide what kind of influence the world has on us; for example, if Devil is controlling things, and he's able to put me on a corner of the chapel asking me whether I want to have all the gold of the world, I still have an option for objection and for refusing his proposition.
|
|
|
Post by greatestiam on Apr 3, 2019 17:43:24 GMT
God created conditions of thinking. If He is the Lord, and we presume that Theism is true, and also, considering that God has an ability to influence on the time of his return to Earth, then God must be a master of any thoughts. I agree with Elizabeth that Devil is the one who is controlling the process of temptation over the world, at the same time I'm not sure that 'control' is using the right way in many ways. There must be a measure in control, and also we have to decide what kind of influence the world has on us; for example, if Devil is controlling things, and he's able to put me on a corner of the chapel asking me whether I want to have all the gold of the world, I still have an option for objection and for refusing his proposition. Your first is pure assumption without evidence, but I will ignore that given that I have used the literal and false way of reading your myth.
You say that God is master of any thought, while scriptures say that he gave Satan the power to deceive all the world. That would include you and I.
You also seem to think of Satan as a man when she is shown as a female in the earliest iconography that we have of Catholic/Christian thought. Just view the expulsion painting in the Vatican collection. Just don't turn Eves face back to what she is shown, subliminally, as doing.
Regards DL
|
|
|
Post by Eugene 2.0 on Apr 3, 2019 19:03:13 GMT
God created conditions of thinking. If He is the Lord, and we presume that Theism is true, and also, considering that God has an ability to influence on the time of his return to Earth, then God must be a master of any thoughts. I agree with Elizabeth that Devil is the one who is controlling the process of temptation over the world, at the same time I'm not sure that 'control' is using the right way in many ways. There must be a measure in control, and also we have to decide what kind of influence the world has on us; for example, if Devil is controlling things, and he's able to put me on a corner of the chapel asking me whether I want to have all the gold of the world, I still have an option for objection and for refusing his proposition. Your first is pure assumption without evidence, but I will ignore that given that I have used the literal and false way of reading your myth.
You say that God is master of any thought, while scriptures say that he gave Satan the power to deceive all the world. That would include you and I.
You also seem to think of Satan as a man when she is shown as a female in the earliest iconography that we have of Catholic/Christian thought. Just view the expulsion painting in the Vatican collection. Just don't turn Eves face back to what she is shown, subliminally, as doing.
Regards DL 1. You have really interesting views though. Just like A. Ayer's or someone who's empiricist believing that all what we can know comes from empiric evidences. But what about Math? What about syncategorematic words? Besides, after Godel's two theorems Hilbert project had been crushed up, so instead of trying to find empiric evidence recursive Math was introduced. 2. I'm not telling myth, and I'm not trying to sure you with something either. Why are you trying to call this myths or smth??? It was a deductive assumption theory. If there are such-and-such circumstances, there has to be such-and-such inferences. And that's all. 3. If God created Satan, when it didn't matter what function he addressed to Devil. God could create Devil #2, and shared him some other functions. 4. Satan has woman's face?!.. Probably, 'she' has one of those Jewish feminists' ugly face like Streisand's. Yeah, it seems coherent. Best regards. SJ.
|
|
|
Post by greatestiam on Apr 3, 2019 21:21:12 GMT
Your first is pure assumption without evidence, but I will ignore that given that I have used the literal and false way of reading your myth.
You say that God is master of any thought, while scriptures say that he gave Satan the power to deceive all the world. That would include you and I.
You also seem to think of Satan as a man when she is shown as a female in the earliest iconography that we have of Catholic/Christian thought. Just view the expulsion painting in the Vatican collection. Just don't turn Eves face back to what she is shown, subliminally, as doing.
Regards DL 1. You have really interesting views though. Just like A. Ayer's or someone who's empiricist believing that all what we can know comes from empiric evidences. But what about Math? What about syncategorematic words? Besides, after Godel's two theorems Hilbert project had been crushed up, so instead of trying to find empiric evidence recursive Math was introduced. 2. I'm not telling myth, and I'm not trying to sure you with something either. Why are you trying to call this myths or smth??? It was a deductive assumption theory. If there are such-and-such circumstances, there has to be such-and-such inferences. And that's all. 3. If God created Satan, when it didn't matter what function he addressed to Devil. God could create Devil #2, and shared him some other functions. 4. Satan has woman's face?!.. Probably, 'she' has one of those Jewish feminists' ugly face like Streisand's. Yeah, it seems coherent. Best regards. SJ. Thanks for your first. I do find more of interest in Gnostic Christianity and it's empirical views than trying to go to a supernatural view of a realm and entities that are obviously based on faith without facts and un-provable speculative nonsense.
As to math, it is useful in some instances but has a ways to go. For instance, physics posits both a 12 dimensional realm as well as a 9 dimensional universe and has math that works for both instances.
Streisand, even with the Jewish nose, I find, looks ok.
As to Satan and here role, we have two schools of thought. Christians see her as evil while Jews, who wrote the myth, think of her as good and working as god's loyal opposition.
Christians are conflicted in this issue as they call Eden where we fell, yet sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.
Gnostics follow more of the Jewish line of thought.
dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/20/comparative-theodicy/
‘Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.
How do you view Eden. Our fall of our elevation?
Regards DL
|
|
Etu Malku
Full Member
Posts: 147
Likes: 25
Religion: Mercuræn-Luciferian
Philosophy: Western Left Hand Path
|
Post by Etu Malku on Apr 4, 2019 1:00:22 GMT
What gives you the idea that either one controls what you are thinking? I for one am certain that what I think is a product of my life experiences and genetic/neurological make-up. But that aside, Morgue in this video is nowhere debating which deity Yahweh or Satan controls our thinking. What he is saying is that in light of the atrocities commited by Yahweh, Yahweh appears to be an evil entity. Being that Morgue follows a version of Gnosticism this makes perfect sense. The Gnostics believed that the god of this world is what they refer to as the Demiurge, which is something of a malevolent entity and that there exists a true god (Abraxas) of all the universe who is a benevolent deity.
You are correct in how we interpret the Christian Yahweh in the Christian myth. You are wrong in thinking that we read our myths literally and believe in them.
We wrote our myths to put against the Christian myth when all where intelligent enough to know not to read myths literally.
I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.
bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2
Further. www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html
Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.
"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."
Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.
Regards DL
I don't find the Abrahamic faiths to be based on mythology, rather they are based on allegory and metaphor.
|
|
|
Post by greatestiam on Apr 4, 2019 14:20:08 GMT
Fiction, by whatever label you wish to use, is still fiction.
Regards DL
|
|
|
Post by jonbain on Apr 4, 2019 19:14:54 GMT
My dear fellow. If you have a verse to discuss. Please just quote it. Vague references, will not suffice. I ain't jumpin' through your hoops, dawg. The Bible constantly implores people to do one thing, rather than another thing. Implicit in this, is that we choose one thing rather than another thing. If it was pre-ordained, there would be no point in telling us which are the better choices. You claim to be gnostic, but an unbeliever ?? Care to explain this paradox? Or is it just a bland contradiction? There is no contradiction if you define god properly and have not gone into intellectual dissonance by letting yourself foolishly believe that your myth is reality and that there is a supernatural realm.
Stevan Davies. The savior is not a celestial being brought to earth; the savior is a capacity of the mind, and the savior’s journey from above is actually one’s own journey from within.
John Lennon. It seems to me that the only true Christians were the Gnostics, who believed in self-knowledge, I.E. becoming Gods themselves, reaching the Christ within, the light is the truth. Turn on the light. All the better to see you my dear.
Regards DL
It would be hubris to suggest that our understanding of nature is complete. That which we do not comprehend or do not even know exists, is by definition: supernatural. A semantic issue, yes? I call it the mystical. Also, we do achieve salvation due to our own inner efforts, but that does not preclude the existence of beings way more powerful than us, that can and do offer salvation. Or do you reckon, humanity is the highest form of consciousness that exists in the universe? Again, that would be egotism. Be careful of the word 'celestial'. If beings from other worlds 'come from the heavens', we can see a very blurry distinction between 'angels' and 'aliens'. Given the fact of the existence of extra-dimensional space, can we really say that 'aliens' cannot travel and even exist in extra-dimensional space? How then, do we decide that they are distinguishable from 'angels'?
|
|