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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Feb 18, 2019 18:42:59 GMT
(Upon request of karl ) I won't try to talk here much, but rather put some material that you can read. Instead of explaining by myself, I'll try to answer on question. But, firstly, I'd like to anticipate some asks. Before all this we need to determinate terms. The Russian Orthodoxy Church is current dominated religious structure in Russia that is an institute of Orthodoxy (one of the branches) and it mostly widespread in many Eastern Europe countries. The Ukrainian Orthodoxy Church is the church that has been legalized lately by the patriarch of Constantinople. The separated church from the Russian Orthodoxy Church from 1992, it wasn't renowned beside Ukraine at first, but it became legal in this year. The Russian Church don't accept legalization of it. The most problem appears now is - was the legalization corrected? And - as the more general question for many other fields in social religious life - who must accept the denomination? All right, I put some links here (if ya'll don't mind): TheGuardian: linkChristianityToday: link And my beloved one - Fox Nеws link
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Post by karl on Feb 28, 2019 21:51:59 GMT
That's not a problem. We can just agree upon disagreeing.
What do you think about "The Shepherd of Hermas"?
I've never read it so I just looked it up. Would you recommend it?
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Feb 28, 2019 22:16:51 GMT
What do you think about "The Shepherd of Hermas"?
I've never read it so I just looked it up. Would you recommend it?
Well, I'm not sure that this book is similar to Thomas's one, but it was written in I year B.C. (when Thomas's was), so maybe it would appear as an interesting book. I don't remember the plot of the book, because I read it long ago. There were times I'd been studying Foucault's"Biopolitics" in one of Social Philosophy's theme. (It was a good time of mine. I was with her... sorry.. I was distracted a bit.) And Foucault told about principles of governing in early Dark Ages, and also he viewed a figure of a shepherd. (I'm not sure about the right word here - shepherd.) It was boring to investigate Foucault's personal archaeological methods (in deep depths of his 'night life'), so I beg my lecturer to prepare the book, we're discussing now, instead of (or addition to) the theme of shepherds. He nodded and I was glad and glowing like an aurora sun. Before the case, I read about the book in one of exercise-books of Patrology (teachings of Fathers of the Church). However, I don't remember neither plot, nor contains of the books. P.S. By the way, I would be very grateful to you, if you ask on my question: what have you graduated, or what are you interested in? Thank you.
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Post by karl on Feb 28, 2019 22:33:51 GMT
I've never read it so I just looked it up. Would you recommend it?
Well, I'm not sure that this book is similar to Thomas's one, but it was written in I year B.C. (when Thomas's was), so maybe it would appear as an interesting book. I don't remember the plot of the book, because I read it long ago. There were times I'd been studying Foucault's"Biopolitics" in one of Social Philosophy's theme. (It was a good time of mine. I was with her... sorry.. I was distracted a bit.) And Foucault told about principles of governing in early Dark Ages, and also he viewed a figure of a shepherd. (I'm not sure about the right word here - shepherd.) It was boring to investigate Foucault's personal archaeological methods (in deep depths of his 'night life'), so I beg my lecturer to prepare the book, we're discussing now, instead of (or addition to) the theme of shepherds. He nodded and I was glad and glowing like an aurora sun. Before the case, I read about the book in one of exercise-books of Patrology (teachings of Fathers of the Church). However, I don't remember neither plot, nor contains of the books. P.S. By the way, I would be very grateful to you, if you ask on my question: what have you graduated, or what are you interested in? Thank you.
Generally speaking, I'm interested in math, physics, philosphy, history, psychology, religion, the current state of global affairs art, war strategy, and computer games. But in regards to my current point of focus, I spend a lot of time on the relativity theory, and, in relation to that, the physics around black holes. I also try to analyse the chaotic state the world finds itself in, and what we may expect for the future. How the Trump presidency will affect the world, how Brexit might plunge Britain into a recession, how China might assert herself, and so on.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Feb 28, 2019 22:41:52 GMT
Well, I'm not sure that this book is similar to Thomas's one, but it was written in I year B.C. (when Thomas's was), so maybe it would appear as an interesting book. I don't remember the plot of the book, because I read it long ago. There were times I'd been studying Foucault's"Biopolitics" in one of Social Philosophy's theme. (It was a good time of mine. I was with her... sorry.. I was distracted a bit.) And Foucault told about principles of governing in early Dark Ages, and also he viewed a figure of a shepherd. (I'm not sure about the right word here - shepherd.) It was boring to investigate Foucault's personal archaeological methods (in deep depths of his 'night life'), so I beg my lecturer to prepare the book, we're discussing now, instead of (or addition to) the theme of shepherds. He nodded and I was glad and glowing like an aurora sun. Before the case, I read about the book in one of exercise-books of Patrology (teachings of Fathers of the Church). However, I don't remember neither plot, nor contains of the books. P.S. By the way, I would be very grateful to you, if you ask on my question: what have you graduated, or what are you interested in? Thank you.
Generally speaking, I'm interested in math, physics, philosphy, history, psychology, religion, the current state of global affairs art, war strategy, and computer games. But in regards to my current point of focus, I spend a lot of time on the relativity theory, and, in relation to that, the physics around black holes. I also try to analyse the chaotic state the world finds itself in, and what we may expect for the future. How the Trump presidency will affect the world, how Brexit might plunge Britain into a recession, how China might assert herself, and so on.
"How the Trump presidency will affect the world" - the most important theme now. If you also interested in pc games, have you played MGS2:SoL? There's an interesting and intriguing dialogue almost at the end of the game (AI and commander). So, ... - I'm sorry that I run up from a central theme here - ... do you think that Trump is a human being, or he's just a matrix hologram that controlled by some undercover govt?
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Post by karl on Feb 28, 2019 22:51:57 GMT
Generally speaking, I'm interested in math, physics, philosphy, history, psychology, religion, the current state of global affairs art, war strategy, and computer games. But in regards to my current point of focus, I spend a lot of time on the relativity theory, and, in relation to that, the physics around black holes. I also try to analyse the chaotic state the world finds itself in, and what we may expect for the future. How the Trump presidency will affect the world, how Brexit might plunge Britain into a recession, how China might assert herself, and so on.
"How the Trump presidency will affect the world" - the most important theme now. If you also interested in pc games, have you played MGS2:SoL? There's an interesting and intriguing dialogue almost at the end of the game (AI and commander). So, ... - I'm sorry that I run up from a central theme here - ... do you think that Trump is a human being, or he's just a matrix hologram that controlled by some undercover govt?
Trump has been a public figure for half a century. I regard him to be a pathogoical narcissist, and the main question is whether he merely represents an upset, as a single brick hurled at the status quo, or if he'll end up causing real damage. That question is, to me, yet to be answered. For example, when he questions the US commitment to NATO, he's unwittingly preparing the ground for a military integration of the EU, which is now openly speaking of the need for an EU army. It wasn't what he intended, he just wanted to shake the European nations down for increasing their contributions to NATO. But it doesn't matter what Trump wants, for he fails to understand the long term consequences of his actions. He's an elephant in a porcelaine shop.
I've never played any metal gear games. I'm mainly into strategy and RPGs.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 1, 2019 13:50:29 GMT
"How the Trump presidency will affect the world" - the most important theme now. If you also interested in pc games, have you played MGS2:SoL? There's an interesting and intriguing dialogue almost at the end of the game (AI and commander). So, ... - I'm sorry that I run up from a central theme here - ... do you think that Trump is a human being, or he's just a matrix hologram that controlled by some undercover govt?
Trump has been a public figure for half a century. I regard him to be a pathogoical narcissist, and the main question is whether he merely represents an upset, as a single brick hurled at the status quo, or if he'll end up causing real damage. That question is, to me, yet to be answered. For example, when he questions the US commitment to NATO, he's unwittingly preparing the ground for a military integration of the EU, which is now openly speaking of the need for an EU army. It wasn't what he intended, he just wanted to shake the European nations down for increasing their contributions to NATO. But it doesn't matter what Trump wants, for he fails to understand the long term consequences of his actions. He's an elephant in a porcelaine shop.
I've never played any metal gear games. I'm mainly into strategy and RPGs.
(I also wanted to thank you for you "likes". ) Being unfamiliar with american politics I heard about Trump a dozen year ago in on of the AVGN issues. It was about the movie "The Wizard" (1989) and J. Rolph said that children in that movie were talking about like Trump. And yes, Trump was an angry businessman. Trump also revealed himself in a few tax scandals and building Casinos. Obviously, he's no a good guy. I agree with you about his characteristic as a Napoleonic narcissistic nature, and also it's questioned about his certain steps in the future. Again, I don't know him well, and the american politics in general, but it seems not very dimly that he's not a person like Bush or Obama. His maneuvers lack of those strong men intentions (remember his first interview with mr. Putin). Anyway, I see politician life in many countries as filthy games. There are no fairy dealings even if it appears to be like that. My opinion here - is to stay away from politics, because it becomes more and more deceiving. Baudrillard wrote about simulacres in our daily life, how we start accepting things easily, without any natural struggle. Also, Humberto Eco's works were about the problem with polisemantic meaning, and about derivings of the central plot into some dimensions. Even our beloved analytic philosophers told us about such things: R. Rorty's Derrida influential works , N. Goodman's "Ways of Worldmaking", and some issues in I. Berlin's politician works, we were told that in those books politics were seen as becoming more and more aggressive, less objective, and eager, and weird.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 1, 2019 13:55:28 GMT
karlI see. You're an intelligent warrior, eh I'd recommend you some first MGS games. They are very politically (if this is a correct word I need to put). The plot of the games is always too complex and complicated to be solved, and it reminds of something behind today's politician lobbies.
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Post by karl on Mar 1, 2019 22:37:31 GMT
Trump has been a public figure for half a century. I regard him to be a pathogoical narcissist, and the main question is whether he merely represents an upset, as a single brick hurled at the status quo, or if he'll end up causing real damage. That question is, to me, yet to be answered. For example, when he questions the US commitment to NATO, he's unwittingly preparing the ground for a military integration of the EU, which is now openly speaking of the need for an EU army. It wasn't what he intended, he just wanted to shake the European nations down for increasing their contributions to NATO. But it doesn't matter what Trump wants, for he fails to understand the long term consequences of his actions. He's an elephant in a porcelaine shop.
I've never played any metal gear games. I'm mainly into strategy and RPGs.
(I also wanted to thank you for you "likes". ) Being unfamiliar with american politics I heard about Trump a dozen year ago in on of the AVGN issues. It was about the movie "The Wizard" (1989) and J. Rolph said that children in that movie were talking about like Trump. And yes, Trump was an angry businessman. Trump also revealed himself in a few tax scandals and building Casinos. Obviously, he's no a good guy. I agree with you about his characteristic as a Napoleonic narcissistic nature, and also it's questioned about his certain steps in the future. Again, I don't know him well, and the american politics in general, but it seems not very dimly that he's not a person like Bush or Obama. His maneuvers lack of those strong men intentions (remember his first interview with mr. Putin). Anyway, I see politician life in many countries as filthy games. There are no fairy dealings even if it appears to be like that. My opinion here - is to stay away from politics, because it becomes more and more deceiving. Baudrillard wrote about simulacres in our daily life, how we start accepting things easily, without any natural struggle. Also, Humberto Eco's works were about the problem with polisemantic meaning, and about derivings of the central plot into some dimensions. Even our beloved analytic philosophers told us about such things: R. Rorty's Derrida influential works , N. Goodman's "Ways of Worldmaking", and some issues in I. Berlin's politician works, we were told that in those books politics were seen as becoming more and more aggressive, less objective, and eager, and weird.
I think the person was right who once stated that in a democracy, people get the politicians they deserve. When a narcissist is elected to office in the US, it's an expression of a collective narcissism among those who voted for him. This doesn't include everyone who refused to vote for Hillary, some of which refused to vote at all, some voted Jill Stein, and some voted for Trump because they saw him as the lesser evil. The ones I'm referring to are those taken in by infantile slogans like "Make America great again" and "America first", while cheering like little gnomes when Trump promises them that he'll coerce Mexico into paying for his promised wall on the Mexican border. They want him to bully the rest of the world into complying with American interests.
I don't see this as an American phenomena, but as a mere manifestation of the restlesness of our time, which real cause is an underlying existential void. Brexit in Britain, the election of Duterte in the Philippines, the turmoil after the last election in Malaysia, the political crisis in South-Korea, the internal conflict between Western and Eastern European countries over immigration within the EU, the rise of nationalism in Japan, or the election of Bolsonaro in Brazil, are all expressions of that the world is in a chaotic state, with a lack of direction, meaning, and purpose. Just like how narcissism may be the last refuge for an empty self, collective narcissism may be the last refuge for an empty, collective self.
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Post by karl on Mar 1, 2019 22:40:40 GMT
karl I see. You're an intelligent warrior, eh I'd recommend you some first MGS games. They are very politically (if this is a correct word I need to put). The plot of the games is always too complex and complicated to be solved, and it reminds of something behind today's politician lobbies.
Well, maybe I'll look into it, but "Hearts of Iron 4" is currently on the top of my list.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 2, 2019 14:39:11 GMT
(I also wanted to thank you for you "likes". ) Being unfamiliar with american politics I heard about Trump a dozen year ago in on of the AVGN issues. It was about the movie "The Wizard" (1989) and J. Rolph said that children in that movie were talking about like Trump. And yes, Trump was an angry businessman. Trump also revealed himself in a few tax scandals and building Casinos. Obviously, he's no a good guy. I agree with you about his characteristic as a Napoleonic narcissistic nature, and also it's questioned about his certain steps in the future. Again, I don't know him well, and the american politics in general, but it seems not very dimly that he's not a person like Bush or Obama. His maneuvers lack of those strong men intentions (remember his first interview with mr. Putin). Anyway, I see politician life in many countries as filthy games. There are no fairy dealings even if it appears to be like that. My opinion here - is to stay away from politics, because it becomes more and more deceiving. Baudrillard wrote about simulacres in our daily life, how we start accepting things easily, without any natural struggle. Also, Humberto Eco's works were about the problem with polisemantic meaning, and about derivings of the central plot into some dimensions. Even our beloved analytic philosophers told us about such things: R. Rorty's Derrida influential works , N. Goodman's "Ways of Worldmaking", and some issues in I. Berlin's politician works, we were told that in those books politics were seen as becoming more and more aggressive, less objective, and eager, and weird.
I think the person was right who once stated that in a democracy, people get the politicians they deserve. When a narcissist is elected to office in the US, it's an expression of a collective narcissism among those who voted for him. This doesn't include everyone who refused to vote for Hillary, some of which refused to vote at all, some voted Jill Stein, and some voted for Trump because they saw him as the lesser evil. The ones I'm referring to are those taken in by infantile slogans like "Make America great again" and "America first", while cheering like little gnomes when Trump promises them that he'll coerce Mexico into paying for his promised wall on the Mexican border. They want him to bully the rest of the world into complying with American interests.
I don't see this as an American phenomena, but as a mere manifestation of the restlesness of our time, which real cause is an underlying existential void. Brexit in Britain, the election of Duterte in the Philippines, the turmoil after the last election in Malaysia, the political crisis in South-Korea, the internal conflict between Western and Eastern European countries over immigration within the EU, the rise of nationalism in Japan, or the election of Bolsonaro in Brazil, are all expressions of that the world is in a chaotic state, with a lack of direction, meaning, and purpose. Just like how narcissism may be the last refuge for an empty self, collective narcissism may be the last refuge for an empty, collective self.
I'm not sure, but there's no exception that at Hillary's would be better. Also, I don't think it's bad to share America's interests all over the world. Let it finally be completed, and we'll see what it gives. At least it would be much more better than Japan's dictatorship in the future. The last paragraph is a postmodern description of today's world. We should thank for that those anti-nazi fighters who now is fighting against males, whiteys, Christians and traditional family values. I agree on what this isn't America phenomena (I didn't mean that in my last comment, but it's however ok), it's a Neweuropean phenomena; a phenomena of those post-wwII Europe.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 2, 2019 14:41:57 GMT
karl I see. You're an intelligent warrior, eh I'd recommend you some first MGS games. They are very politically (if this is a correct word I need to put). The plot of the games is always too complex and complicated to be solved, and it reminds of something behind today's politician lobbies.
Well, maybe I'll look into it, but "Hearts of Iron 4" is currently on the top of my list.
Strategies always must be tough and interesting, but I like to concentrate myself of the story plot. Solving puzzles - it's mine too, but while I'm doing it in text-books with logical and math puzzles, all those gaming ones are still left behind. I played strategies and RPG in PSone era mostly, and also in the mid of 00's.
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Post by karl on Mar 2, 2019 18:49:35 GMT
Well, maybe I'll look into it, but "Hearts of Iron 4" is currently on the top of my list.
Strategies always must be tough and interesting, but I like to concentrate myself of the story plot. Solving puzzles - it's mine too, but while I'm doing it in text-books with logical and math puzzles, all those gaming ones are still left behind. I played strategies and RPG in PSone era mostly, and also in the mid of 00's.
Have you ever tried "Witcher 3"?
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Post by karl on Mar 2, 2019 19:27:10 GMT
I think the person was right who once stated that in a democracy, people get the politicians they deserve. When a narcissist is elected to office in the US, it's an expression of a collective narcissism among those who voted for him. This doesn't include everyone who refused to vote for Hillary, some of which refused to vote at all, some voted Jill Stein, and some voted for Trump because they saw him as the lesser evil. The ones I'm referring to are those taken in by infantile slogans like "Make America great again" and "America first", while cheering like little gnomes when Trump promises them that he'll coerce Mexico into paying for his promised wall on the Mexican border. They want him to bully the rest of the world into complying with American interests.
I don't see this as an American phenomena, but as a mere manifestation of the restlesness of our time, which real cause is an underlying existential void. Brexit in Britain, the election of Duterte in the Philippines, the turmoil after the last election in Malaysia, the political crisis in South-Korea, the internal conflict between Western and Eastern European countries over immigration within the EU, the rise of nationalism in Japan, or the election of Bolsonaro in Brazil, are all expressions of that the world is in a chaotic state, with a lack of direction, meaning, and purpose. Just like how narcissism may be the last refuge for an empty self, collective narcissism may be the last refuge for an empty, collective self.
I'm not sure, but there's no exception that at Hillary's would be better. Also, I don't think it's bad to share America's interests all over the world. Let it finally be completed, and we'll see what it gives. At least it would be much more better than Japan's dictatorship in the future. The last paragraph is a postmodern description of today's world. We should thank for that those anti-nazi fighters who now is fighting against males, whiteys, Christians and traditional family values. I agree on what this isn't America phenomena (I didn't mean that in my last comment, but it's however ok), it's a Neweuropean phenomena; a phenomena of those post-wwII Europe.
I see postmodernism as a classical example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Nazism gave us a definition of evil. One reason why this had such a profound effect, is that the Nazis based their atrocities on already existing mindsets. Even the methods they used had already been invented. The death rate in the British concentration camps in the Boer war, was 40%, mostly children. In my country, Norway, the sterilisation laws, created to sterilise undesirables, passed the Norwegian parliament in 1934 against one vote. Eugenics, social Darwinism, racism, and authoritarianism were ingrained in European societies at the time. What the Nazis did was to dial it up to ten. Instead of only sterilising people with mental illness, they started killing them.
So, after WW2, Nazism and everything associated with it, became discredited. Instead, the new mentality were to be built on equality. Seeing some races as more worth than other races, was replaced by the view of everyone is equal, with equal, individual rights, expressed through the human rights declaration.
However, this idea about equality because, what I want to refer to as a vegetative thought track. Instead of being applied specifically to an individual's self-worth, it became a philosophical concept, rejecting any notion of something being qualitative better than something else. Not only does it lead to the claim that Brutalistic architecture is as aesthetic as a Gothic church, but relativises truth itself. I recently read, or tried to read, an essay about postmodern math, and it's recommended reading for masochists who'd enjoy a self-induced headache.
It's endpoint is that there cannot be a qualitative difference in any way, anywhere. There is no truth and no beauty, as anything upheld as such may be deconstructed, and replaced by anything else, justified through empty, convoluted rhetoric.
This leads to emptiness, which the human mind cannot endure. We have an inherent need for an inner sense of continuity. If we're fragmented on the inside, we'll be filled with restlessness, and that restlessness may take all forms. It could spur one into creativity and/or truth seeking. But it could also find a destructive outlet. Leaving people with a sense of meaninglessness is to play with fire, and what we're witnessing is that fire fast reaching a point where it needs to be put out before it runs amok.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Mar 11, 2019 18:39:57 GMT
I'm not sure, but there's no exception that at Hillary's would be better. Also, I don't think it's bad to share America's interests all over the world. Let it finally be completed, and we'll see what it gives. At least it would be much more better than Japan's dictatorship in the future. The last paragraph is a postmodern description of today's world. We should thank for that those anti-nazi fighters who now is fighting against males, whiteys, Christians and traditional family values. I agree on what this isn't America phenomena (I didn't mean that in my last comment, but it's however ok), it's a Neweuropean phenomena; a phenomena of those post-wwII Europe.
I see postmodernism as a classical example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Nazism gave us a definition of evil. One reason why this had such a profound effect, is that the Nazis based their atrocities on already existing mindsets. Even the methods they used had already been invented. The death rate in the British concentration camps in the Boer war, was 40%, mostly children. In my country, Norway, the sterilisation laws, created to sterilise undesirables, passed the Norwegian parliament in 1934 against one vote. Eugenics, social Darwinism, racism, and authoritarianism were ingrained in European societies at the time. What the Nazis did was to dial it up to ten. Instead of only sterilising people with mental illness, they started killing them.
So, after WW2, Nazism and everything associated with it, became discredited. Instead, the new mentality were to be built on equality. Seeing some races as more worth than other races, was replaced by the view of everyone is equal, with equal, individual rights, expressed through the human rights declaration.
However, this idea about equality because, what I want to refer to as a vegetative thought track. Instead of being applied specifically to an individual's self-worth, it became a philosophical concept, rejecting any notion of something being qualitative better than something else. Not only does it lead to the claim that Brutalistic architecture is as aesthetic as a Gothic church, but relativises truth itself. I recently read, or tried to read, an essay about postmodern math, and it's recommended reading for masochists who'd enjoy a self-induced headache.
It's endpoint is that there cannot be a qualitative difference in any way, anywhere. There is no truth and no beauty, as anything upheld as such may be deconstructed, and replaced by anything else, justified through empty, convoluted rhetoric.
This leads to emptiness, which the human mind cannot endure. We have an inherent need for an inner sense of continuity. If we're fragmented on the inside, we'll be filled with restlessness, and that restlessness may take all forms. It could spur one into creativity and/or truth seeking. But it could also find a destructive outlet. Leaving people with a sense of meaninglessness is to play with fire, and what we're witnessing is that fire fast reaching a point where it needs to be put out before it runs amok.
I didn't know that you're from Norway! I like a Norway philosopher Lars Svendsen, I've read his "Philosophy of Evil", and "Philosophy of Fear". I know that he issued many interesting books about Philosophy in vary fields. I am satisfied that he has been translated in Russian. Also, one of my beloved books is Schopenhauer' "Ethics and Anesthetics" which was celebrated to Norway Royal Community. I remember I read the forewords of Schopenhauer and it was funny. He used the language that now some postmodernists use, but using much irony in it. Concerning the text. Just awesome! Thank you for such comments! Especially about the postmodernic math - I don't even want to get it, because.... but, no... I would involve if I were a mathematician. Actually, being so angry at those who called themselves postmodernists (actually I don't believe in postmodernism as modernism either), I would read it and started to discuss. My idea is simple and plain as Elvis (it's an address to the string of Public Enemy's famous song "Fight the Power") - I'd like to interrogate those 'postmodernists', and I was sure (100%) that they would be cracked as chickens. So, this is a core reason - they are not interrogated by anyone. I think that we've lost masculine imagination of using force as soon as we've believed in that "mass = energy", or "physics is based on relativity". I don't believe in relativity, because this notion is controversial. It's obvious that something keeps staying the same while everything else is changing; and there's no other way to define 'relativity'. Yeah, I know I confess to old and too rough and plain ideas, but it is my wish, not Yudkowskys' (this is one of 'newest' postmodernic philosophers; who, among the other thoughts, claimed that "your rationality is my business"). You're absolutely right (and my dozens of respects) about the situation after WWII and consequences... Yes, you're right... You know, I haven't answered on all your points in your comment, but even a part of this has a great expression on me. Incredible, just incredible!
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 11, 2019 19:16:19 GMT
So would you recommend for Ukrainians to go to a Ukrainian orthodox church and Russians to a Russian orthodox church since they're different? Or a person can easily fit in in any of the orthodox churches?
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