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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Nov 23, 2018 12:33:34 GMT
There's a proof that it's impossible to claim that the world is an illusion.
Anyone who tries to sure you that everything (or 'the world') is an illusion is trying to give you some explanations of this; he wants you to make some conclusions by yourself. Either way he fails.
Take a look, if he wants you to believe his words you can or just to believe him and this won't be an argument, but just a belief in something; if he wants you to make some conclusions, then he's going wrong even more, because no conclusions will be existed.
Briefly, there's no conclusion in the world of illusions.
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Post by Polaris on Nov 23, 2018 23:18:58 GMT
It is a reality not illusion, however we need to believe that the idea of "the universe and its existence" is bigger than the capacity of the human brain.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Nov 24, 2018 8:56:33 GMT
It is a reality not illusion, however we need to believe that the idea of "the universe and its existence" is bigger than the capacity of the human brain. I think that this is very likely for the universe to be bigger, but it's not necessary. Why reality? I was talking about illusions. If someone says 'the world is an illusion', then either his phrase, or any conclusions derived from it, won't exist.
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Post by Polaris on Nov 24, 2018 9:34:43 GMT
It is a reality not illusion, however we need to believe that the idea of "the universe and its existence" is bigger than the capacity of the human brain. I think that this is very likely for the universe to be bigger, but it's not necessary. Why reality? I was talking about illusions. If someone says 'the world is an illusion', then either his phrase, or any conclusions derived from it, won't exist. No matter what you call it " reality or illusion" we should stick to our "conscious" definition of what is real and what is illusive, and no matter whether this consciousness is itself real or illusive, i accept it and judge things according to it.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Nov 24, 2018 15:08:38 GMT
Maybe people who think the world is an illusion watched “The Matrix” movies too many times shrug
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 24, 2018 17:23:07 GMT
But the world is real. So doesn't seem like an illusion to me Shrug
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Nov 25, 2018 15:41:34 GMT
I think that this is very likely for the universe to be bigger, but it's not necessary. Why reality? I was talking about illusions. If someone says 'the world is an illusion', then either his phrase, or any conclusions derived from it, won't exist. No matter what you call it " reality or illusion" we should stick to our "conscious" definition of what is real and what is illusive, and no matter whether this consciousness is itself real or illusive, i accept it and judge things according to it. "this consciousness" This should be called as masked or latent proposition. What is this consciousness? Does it exist? To claim that there's a consciousness we need to know about it how to find it or how to determine it. Yes, I'm a pragmatist in such question is 'what is reality' or 'what is illusion', but there are some who claims that everything is an illusion, so this objection was addressed to them, not to the ones who hold barely a pragmatic view on this subject.
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Post by Polaris on Nov 25, 2018 18:00:11 GMT
No matter what you call it " reality or illusion" we should stick to our "conscious" definition of what is real and what is illusive, and no matter whether this consciousness is itself real or illusive, i accept it and judge things according to it. "this consciousness" This should be called as masked or latent proposition. What is this consciousness? Does it exist? To claim that there's a consciousness we need to know about it how to find it or how to determine it. Yes, I'm a pragmatist in such question is 'what is reality' or 'what is illusion', but there are some who claims that everything is an illusion, so this objection was addressed to them, not to the ones who hold barely a pragmatic view on this subject. إYes, it does. it exists, and the evidence i have for its existences is that i made predictions that Eugene will reply and he will either agree or disagree, and you have replied.The evidence that o have replied is that i can see in front of my eyes your reply.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 3, 2018 15:56:31 GMT
"this consciousness" This should be called as masked or latent proposition. What is this consciousness? Does it exist? To claim that there's a consciousness we need to know about it how to find it or how to determine it. Yes, I'm a pragmatist in such question is 'what is reality' or 'what is illusion', but there are some who claims that everything is an illusion, so this objection was addressed to them, not to the ones who hold barely a pragmatic view on this subject. إYes, it does. it exists, and the evidence i have for its existences is that i made predictions that Eugene will reply and he will either agree or disagree, and you have replied.The evidence that o have replied is that i can see in front of my eyes your reply. I can be a robo and act like the scarecrow (from Oz land). No, it's not a strong evidence. What is existence then? - If I can see your message doesn't mean that my mind exists. It's not the same to claim that the written text exists and that the mind which reading it exist. The mind here is a tool, and under tools we can understand whichever we want, there's no necessity here. And also we can say that there's a thing that we call the 'mind', and this thing is able to search and solve messages. Aye, it might be, but someone will ask us: "Guys, do you think if the mind is the right tool it means that the mind is in this case already? Why?".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2018 16:54:00 GMT
There's a proof that it's impossible to claim that the world is an illusion. Anyone who tries to sure you that everything (or 'the world') is an illusion is trying to give you some explanations of this; he wants you to make some conclusions by yourself. Either way he fails. Take a look, if he wants you to believe his words you can or just to believe him and this won't be an argument, but just a belief in something; if he wants you to make some conclusions, then he's going wrong even more, because no conclusions will be existed. Briefly, there's no conclusion in the world of illusions. Actually all illusion is a deficiency in truth, but a truth none the less...just not a full truth. Considering the nature of the empircal world always has an element of change, by default it is illusive on its own terms but observed as true through memory. If the world is strictly not an illusion, then by default those who claim it is an illusion are true as well considering the world contains these various perspectives as extensions of it. In these respects, the world can be an illusion but still be true.
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Post by Eugene 2.0 on Dec 3, 2018 17:07:23 GMT
There's a proof that it's impossible to claim that the world is an illusion. Anyone who tries to sure you that everything (or 'the world') is an illusion is trying to give you some explanations of this; he wants you to make some conclusions by yourself. Either way he fails. Take a look, if he wants you to believe his words you can or just to believe him and this won't be an argument, but just a belief in something; if he wants you to make some conclusions, then he's going wrong even more, because no conclusions will be existed. Briefly, there's no conclusion in the world of illusions. Actually all illusion is a deficiency in truth, but a truth none the less...just not a full truth. Considering the nature of the empircal world always has an element of change, by default it is illusive on its own terms but observed as true through memory. If the world is strictly not an illusion, then by default those who claim it is an illusion are true as well considering the world contains these various perspectives as extensions of it. In these respects, the world can be an illusion but still be true. An element of changing... Aye... I forgot. Got tha point. Synergical one world wit da ilusion, innit? i tink that ilusia is a fixion; sorta. The mess is transcendental complexity. Megacomplexity is not a nothing, is not an empty can of my beer. Aye, John tank you, brother! Respects, dude!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2018 17:22:26 GMT
Actually all illusion is a deficiency in truth, but a truth none the less...just not a full truth. Considering the nature of the empircal world always has an element of change, by default it is illusive on its own terms but observed as true through memory. If the world is strictly not an illusion, then by default those who claim it is an illusion are true as well considering the world contains these various perspectives as extensions of it. In these respects, the world can be an illusion but still be true. An element of changing... Aye... I forgot. Got tha point. Synergical one world wit da ilusion, innit? i tink that ilusia is a fixion; sorta. The mess is transcendental complexity. Megacomplexity is not a nothing, is not an empty can of my beer. Aye, John tank you, brother! Respects, dude! Oh yeah...The Great Lebowski is the man....great movie.
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Slim Pickens
New Member
Horse Sense Apprentice
Posts: 7
Likes: 3
Meta-Ethnicity: What's That ?
Ethnicity: Tryin' to quit
Country: Johnny Cash and Merle Travis
Taxonomy: Primate,I guess
Y-DNA: Why not
Politics: Stay Away
Religion: No,thanx
Relationship Status: Why you ask,you're looking for someone?
Hero: On A good day,Maybe
Age: 13.8 Billion
Philosophy: Healthy Cynicism
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Post by Slim Pickens on Dec 4, 2018 14:58:35 GMT
But the world is real. So doesn't seem like an illusion to me Can't argue with that...unless...Oh,this world is sooo unreal,it must be an illusion... Maybe people who think the world is an illusion watched “The Matrix” movies too many times Or maybe people who don't think is an illusion didn't watch it enough. There's a proof that it's impossible to claim that the world is an illusion. Anyone who tries to sure you that everything (or 'the world') is an illusion is trying to give you some explanations of this; he wants you to make some conclusions by yourself. Either way he fails. Take a look, if he wants you to believe his words you can or just to believe him and this won't be an argument, but just a belief in something; if he wants you to make some conclusions, then he's going wrong even more, because no conclusions will be existed. Briefly, there's no conclusion in the world of illusions. That question is as old as philosophy.It's that old "Brain In A Vat" thing.The fact is that,using only logic,you can't deduce neither for sure. In philosophy we can apply what Stephen Hawking said on Big Bang and physics: "Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang. Events before the Big Bang, are simply not defined, because there's no way one could measure what happened at them." In philosophy,you can only realize that you have several possibilities in this matter,and move on.
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 4, 2018 15:07:42 GMT
Slim Pickens How does one find illusion or not illusion qualities? Or what is illusion?
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Slim Pickens
New Member
Horse Sense Apprentice
Posts: 7
Likes: 3
Meta-Ethnicity: What's That ?
Ethnicity: Tryin' to quit
Country: Johnny Cash and Merle Travis
Taxonomy: Primate,I guess
Y-DNA: Why not
Politics: Stay Away
Religion: No,thanx
Relationship Status: Why you ask,you're looking for someone?
Hero: On A good day,Maybe
Age: 13.8 Billion
Philosophy: Healthy Cynicism
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Post by Slim Pickens on Dec 4, 2018 15:50:13 GMT
Slim Pickens How does one find illusion or not illusion qualities? Or what is illusion? Well,I figured he was joking about Matrix,and so have I. Illusion,by definition,is a distortion of senses.So we take it that this world is real,but we except that there are several more options,one being that we live in some sort of simulation-"Brain in a vat" sort of thing.If the simulation is far more complex than our sensory and logical capacities,then we can't see it. It's a different kind of illusion,what we are talking here. We can deduce that people,when sober,share the same understanding of solid,objective,material reality (I'm not talking beliefs and ideas and stuff here).Any dissonance from that-seeing,hearing and touching objects that others don't is an illusion. This can be argued by nitpicking philosophers,but I don't think that's what philosophy should be about.Nitpicking,I mean.
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