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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 23, 2018 19:56:11 GMT
Just as cute pair unknown and Eodnhoj7 share a thread to discuss philosophy together, so Dk and I plan to share our own discussion too. Please refrain from comments here. You can make your own threads based off stuff here for your own separate discussions.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jan 28, 2019 6:24:41 GMT
DKTrav88 I agree with all of that. And now gonna mention some things I left out before and will continue from where you left of too. OT and NT commands us to choose who we marry and to choose "in the Lord". Meaning a Christian who God approves. Otherwise we have done wrong. Ezra 10:10 And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel. The verse above says the priest Ezra reminded the people that they have "transgressed" by taking strange wives. Transgressed means to go againt what God commands so it's disobeying God which is a sin. The priest was not happy that the men didn't marry in the Lord as in marrying godly wives. Marrying a person who doesn't love God is a disaster. They do not care about following God's commandments so they might hurt or kill their spouses or children and live how they want. They don't care about the fact that in marriage you become one till death and so on. They will be a disaster to your faith and home. So cannot be done. Nehemiah 13:27 Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives? And some people might say marrying not a Christian isn't in the 10 commandments but it is. It's the love your neighbor as yourself. You wouldn't want a bad parent so if you love your future kids (which you should always love by God's law) then you'd give them a great mother. Like Jesus said... Matthew 7:9-10 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? Only a bad man who doesn't love his children would give them bad things. A man of God would only give good things like God gives good things to His children. And of course after both marry in the Lord they must live in knowledge or their prayers to God's ears will be hindered/stop as the verse below states since they stop being God's children by disobeying Him. 1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered. And God doesn't listen to prayers of sinners since they're Satan's responsibility. As these verses say... Proverbs 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous. Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. So those who don't obey God by living righteously then God doesn't hear their prayers which are an abominatiom to Him. You also quoted this verse... I notice two important things here is that women must TEACH love and the word of God (second thing I'll mention at the bottom of post). Women are not there to sit quietly and let someone who needs Jesus to die. They will break the love your neighbor commandment by not teaching. So women must teach which is basically preaching God's word, just not inside of the church because the husband/Christ is in charge there and wives/church just obey the word of God that's preached. But otherwise they're responsible to... 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. Never once does it say only males must do it in those verses. Same as OT. All the people are commanded to teach/preach as the verse below says. Deuteronomy 4:10 Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.So it says people which are male and female to teach their children. So we are told to teach those younger than us. Now that second thing that I said I'd mention at the end of this post is still part of this verse you quoted... The aged women part to me just means women who know God's word and lived by it must teach the younger women to do the same. Because OT says people must teach children or those younger than them who don't yet know what to do. We just must teach what me know to the younger generation especially but still to everyone because we must always... 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. Anyone not letting a woman to teach/preach is wrong. Jesus didn't even stop them because as God He commanded the angels to tell the women to deliver things othetwise the angels wouldn't give females a task. The word "gospel" means good news and the good news is Christ's resurrection. And who were told to preach/teach this first? Women. Matthew 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you. And... Luke 24:8-10 And they remembered his words, And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest. It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. They were to preach the risen Christ to His disciples/followers! The angel didn't wait for a man to show up at the tomb to have a man do it. He sent the women! God likes witnesses speaking most of all because it's real and powerful to the hearer. The testimony of these women is better than the rest because they witnessed an empty tomb with angels. Anyone witnessing the power of God in their lives must share it. Isaiah 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. Anything to add? Agree or disagree? I agree You said, But there's this passage here in 1 Corinthians 7, which I know does not condone marrying an unbeliever, it does give rules for how we are to deal with being married to an unbeliever, 1 Corinthians 7:12-15 12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. Basically what it is saying is if we are already married to an unbeliever, not that we should marry an unbeliever, that we should not divorce them if we are pleased to be with them in marriage. It says the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing spouse and that their children are legitimate because of the faith of the believing spouse. This shouldn't be confused into making it seem okay to marry an unbeliever because that is not at all what this is saying. This passage is only referring to those who have accepted Christ as their savior after already being married as an unbeliever to an unbeliever, and their spouse didn't or hasn't yet accepted Christ. Yes absolutely, and this passages apply to this also, Ephesians 6:1-4 1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. 4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. And the same is said in Colossians 3. Absolutely. The thought that women must sit quietly and not teach or say anything is only a rule within the church. There were prophetesses in the OT, Judges 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. ...and there was a woman apostle spoken of in the book of Romans by Paul, Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. ...and in the book of Acts, Acts 21:8-9 8 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. 9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. ...and the verses you quote after apply to all believers, not just men. And of course the verse you quoted in Luke, the women were giving their testimony to the disciples, the disciples didn't tell them to shut up and remain silent. Christianity is not like Islam where women are subject to all men and treated like a dog or a slave. Some former members of this forum seemed to have thought otherwise but this is kind of going away from the topic of marriage into a separate topic But, if we are finished with the topic of marriage, we could go into the topic of women's roles according to God's word, which we have already halfway covered in the topic of marriage Your thoughts? I disagree with you on this that you said. You said if we are pleased with them then we shouldn't divorce. This is wrong. We shouldn't divorce whether we are pleased with them or not. It says the believer (Christian) cannot divorce ever because they must obey God and know they're one till death. Only the unbeliever can divorce you because they don't have to obey God or go to heaven. But if they leave us we can't remarry because either way we are still 1 till death even if the unbeliever doesn't believe or care. See.... 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. See this verse says if the unbeliever wants to remain married then the believer must remain with the spouse. It's as long as the unbeliever is pleased to stay not if the believer is pleased, so you got that wrong. And again... 15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. If they want to leave you, they can. But we can't leave. We have a law to uphold and they do not. They are only there to be evil and wicked and we are there to love and obey God. This I agree with you on.. Yeah, the spouses are one flesh and must work as a team. If you don't treat each other well then the team falls apart. Teams must work together and agree together to be successful. And bible says spouses must love each other as themselves...not as one who's less in value than them because they're equal in importance. They are not equal in roles because each has a different role to play but they're both equal in value and importance as a human because they are one human being in the end. Ephesians 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. Otherwise verse would say love the wife less than yourself because she is a slave or whatever. But it says love as much as you love yourself. And wives must do the same in return. Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children.. But even without these verses the 10 commandments says to love your neighbor as yourself. That implies everyone is of equal value as yourself. And yes we can do women's roles if you want now and men's roles too please. Comments? Agree? Disagree?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Jan 31, 2019 2:32:03 GMT
I agree You said, But there's this passage here in 1 Corinthians 7, which I know does not condone marrying an unbeliever, it does give rules for how we are to deal with being married to an unbeliever, 1 Corinthians 7:12-15 12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. Basically what it is saying is if we are already married to an unbeliever, not that we should marry an unbeliever, that we should not divorce them if we are pleased to be with them in marriage. It says the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing spouse and that their children are legitimate because of the faith of the believing spouse. This shouldn't be confused into making it seem okay to marry an unbeliever because that is not at all what this is saying. This passage is only referring to those who have accepted Christ as their savior after already being married as an unbeliever to an unbeliever, and their spouse didn't or hasn't yet accepted Christ. Yes absolutely, and this passages apply to this also, Ephesians 6:1-4 1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise; 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. 4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. And the same is said in Colossians 3. Absolutely. The thought that women must sit quietly and not teach or say anything is only a rule within the church. There were prophetesses in the OT, Judges 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. ...and there was a woman apostle spoken of in the book of Romans by Paul, Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. ...and in the book of Acts, Acts 21:8-9 8 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. 9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. ...and the verses you quote after apply to all believers, not just men. And of course the verse you quoted in Luke, the women were giving their testimony to the disciples, the disciples didn't tell them to shut up and remain silent. Christianity is not like Islam where women are subject to all men and treated like a dog or a slave. Some former members of this forum seemed to have thought otherwise but this is kind of going away from the topic of marriage into a separate topic But, if we are finished with the topic of marriage, we could go into the topic of women's roles according to God's word, which we have already halfway covered in the topic of marriage Your thoughts? I disagree with you on this that you said. You said if we are pleased with them then we shouldn't divorce. This is wrong. We shouldn't divorce whether we are pleased with them or not. It says the believer (Christian) cannot divorce ever because they must obey God and know they're one till death. Only the unbeliever can divorce you because they don't have to obey God or go to heaven. But if they leave us we can't remarry because either way we are still 1 till death even if the unbeliever doesn't believe or care. See.... 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. See this verse says if the unbeliever wants to remain married then the believer must remain with the spouse. It's as long as the unbeliever is pleased to stay not if the believer is pleased, so you got that wrong. And again... 15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. If they want to leave you, they can. But we can't leave. We have a law to uphold and they do not. They are only there to be evil and wicked and we are there to love and obey God. This I agree with you on.. Yeah, the spouses are one flesh and must work as a team. If you don't treat each other well then the team falls apart. Teams must work together and agree together to be successful. And bible says spouses must love each other as themselves...not as one who's less in value than them because they're equal in importance. They are not equal in roles because each has a different role to play but they're both equal in value and importance as a human because they are one human being in the end. Ephesians 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. Otherwise verse would say love the wife less than yourself because she is a slave or whatever. But it says love as much as you love yourself. And wives must do the same in return. Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children.. But even without these verses the 10 commandments says to love your neighbor as yourself. That implies everyone is of equal value as yourself. And yes we can do women's roles if you want now and men's roles too please. Comments? Agree? Disagree? Yes, you are right. I did not write that correctly It doesn't say anything about us being able to divorce at all. It says if a spouse that is an unbeliever is married to a believing spouse, but only after being married before becoming a believer, that if the unbelieving spouse is happy to be with the believing spouse that the believing spouse should not leave the unbelieving spouse. It does NOT say that if the unbelieving spouse is unhappy to be with the believing spouse it is okay for the believing spouse to leave the unbelieving spouse. It says the unbelieving spouse can leave only. Something I am not sure of, though it says "A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases", is if the believing spouse is allowed to remarry. Going by the context, it would seem that the believing spouse, at the point when the unbelieving spouse leaves them, not being under bondage any longer, that is, not of one flesh any longer, is allowed to remarry if they wish, but only another believer. Do you agree or disagree? Yes, absolutely agree they must be as one and work as one together if they are to succeed. Right, as I said women are not seen as a less valuable person like in Islam and like others say who don't understand scripture. Yes, they both, the husband and wife, have their own roles to play in the marriage and both are equally important. Yes, exactly Also, just wanted to point this out... Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Notice how it says "and thy desire shall be to thy husband". Well, in the ESV (English Standard Version) it says this, Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.” Now, this is pretty obviously saying that what the wife wants will not be what the husband wants which is the opposite of what the KJV and most other Bible versions say. Another one, the EXB (Expanded Bible), says, Genesis 3:16 Then God said to the woman, “I will cause you to have much trouble [or increase your pain] when you are pregnant [in childbearing], and when you give birth to children, you will have great pain. You will greatly desire[ the word implies a desire to control;] your husband, but he will rule over you.” Obviously not saying the same thing as well, but that the wife will desire to control her husband, while all the other versions say about the same as the KJV. The NLT (New Living Translation) says the same as the EXB as well. The Douay-Rheims 1899 version and the Wycliffe Bible completely cut out that part of the verse and put something like "and thou shalt be under thy husband's power" rather than saying "and thy desire shall be to thy husband". This just goes to show that sometimes people have their doctrines messed up because of the specific Bible they are reading. In this case in the subject of marriage, some wives will be made to believe that what they want will be contrary to what their husbands want and they will think it is normal to be contrary to their husbands, but this mode of thought doesn't promote teamwork at all. And others will be made to believe that they will want to control their husbands and that it is a normal thing to want to control their husbands, but this mode of thought doesn't promote teamwork either. These as well as others will never be told that their desire should only be to their husbands because their Bible never told them that. Thoughts? Comments? Mkay, you can start first on the roles of men and women
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 4, 2019 4:29:23 GMT
I disagree with you on this that you said. You said if we are pleased with them then we shouldn't divorce. This is wrong. We shouldn't divorce whether we are pleased with them or not. It says the believer (Christian) cannot divorce ever because they must obey God and know they're one till death. Only the unbeliever can divorce you because they don't have to obey God or go to heaven. But if they leave us we can't remarry because either way we are still 1 till death even if the unbeliever doesn't believe or care. See.... 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. See this verse says if the unbeliever wants to remain married then the believer must remain with the spouse. It's as long as the unbeliever is pleased to stay not if the believer is pleased, so you got that wrong. And again... 15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. If they want to leave you, they can. But we can't leave. We have a law to uphold and they do not. They are only there to be evil and wicked and we are there to love and obey God. This I agree with you on.. Yeah, the spouses are one flesh and must work as a team. If you don't treat each other well then the team falls apart. Teams must work together and agree together to be successful. And bible says spouses must love each other as themselves...not as one who's less in value than them because they're equal in importance. They are not equal in roles because each has a different role to play but they're both equal in value and importance as a human because they are one human being in the end. Ephesians 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. Otherwise verse would say love the wife less than yourself because she is a slave or whatever. But it says love as much as you love yourself. And wives must do the same in return. Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children.. But even without these verses the 10 commandments says to love your neighbor as yourself. That implies everyone is of equal value as yourself. And yes we can do women's roles if you want now and men's roles too please. Comments? Agree? Disagree? Yes, you are right. I did not write that correctly It doesn't say anything about us being able to divorce at all. It says if a spouse that is an unbeliever is married to a believing spouse, but only after being married before becoming a believer, that if the unbelieving spouse is happy to be with the believing spouse that the believing spouse should not leave the unbelieving spouse. It does NOT say that if the unbelieving spouse is unhappy to be with the believing spouse it is okay for the believing spouse to leave the unbelieving spouse. It says the unbelieving spouse can leave only. Something I am not sure of, though it says "A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases", is if the believing spouse is allowed to remarry. Going by the context, it would seem that the believing spouse, at the point when the unbelieving spouse leaves them, not being under bondage any longer, that is, not of one flesh any longer, is allowed to remarry if they wish, but only another believer. Do you agree or disagree? Yes, absolutely agree they must be as one and work as one together if they are to succeed. Right, as I said women are not seen as a less valuable person like in Islam and like others say who don't understand scripture. Yes, they both, the husband and wife, have their own roles to play in the marriage and both are equally important. Yes, exactly Also, just wanted to point this out... Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Notice how it says "and thy desire shall be to thy husband". Well, in the ESV (English Standard Version) it says this, Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.” Now, this is pretty obviously saying that what the wife wants will not be what the husband wants which is the opposite of what the KJV and most other Bible versions say. Another one, the EXB (Expanded Bible), says, Genesis 3:16 Then God said to the woman, “I will cause you to have much trouble [or increase your pain] when you are pregnant [in childbearing], and when you give birth to children, you will have great pain. You will greatly desire[ the word implies a desire to control;] your husband, but he will rule over you.” Obviously not saying the same thing as well, but that the wife will desire to control her husband, while all the other versions say about the same as the KJV. The NLT (New Living Translation) says the same as the EXB as well. The Douay-Rheims 1899 version and the Wycliffe Bible completely cut out that part of the verse and put something like "and thou shalt be under thy husband's power" rather than saying "and thy desire shall be to thy husband". This just goes to show that sometimes people have their doctrines messed up because of the specific Bible they are reading. In this case in the subject of marriage, some wives will be made to believe that what they want will be contrary to what their husbands want and they will think it is normal to be contrary to their husbands, but this mode of thought doesn't promote teamwork at all. And others will be made to believe that they will want to control their husbands and that it is a normal thing to want to control their husbands, but this mode of thought doesn't promote teamwork either. These as well as others will never be told that their desire should only be to their husbands because their Bible never told them that. Thoughts? Comments? Mkay, you can start first on the roles of men and women Yes, this is correct. No. You are one flesh until one dies. No exceptions for the Christian. About the unChristian brother/sister we don't care and can let them depart. They will go to hell so doesn't matter what they do anyway since they have free will and we can't force them to do things differently. But a Christian brother/sister knows they're one flesh until death and only after can marry since are free from being one anymore. 1 Corinthians 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. Yes, correct. Plus when 2 become one flesh it only makes sense they will work as one team and desire to do so. Otherwise the household will be unstable. And I can start the roles of men and women if you'd like or you can. Unless there is something in this post you disagree with or want to further discuss.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 6, 2019 2:35:54 GMT
Yes, you are right. I did not write that correctly It doesn't say anything about us being able to divorce at all. It says if a spouse that is an unbeliever is married to a believing spouse, but only after being married before becoming a believer, that if the unbelieving spouse is happy to be with the believing spouse that the believing spouse should not leave the unbelieving spouse. It does NOT say that if the unbelieving spouse is unhappy to be with the believing spouse it is okay for the believing spouse to leave the unbelieving spouse. It says the unbelieving spouse can leave only. Something I am not sure of, though it says "A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases", is if the believing spouse is allowed to remarry. Going by the context, it would seem that the believing spouse, at the point when the unbelieving spouse leaves them, not being under bondage any longer, that is, not of one flesh any longer, is allowed to remarry if they wish, but only another believer. Do you agree or disagree? Yes, absolutely agree they must be as one and work as one together if they are to succeed. Right, as I said women are not seen as a less valuable person like in Islam and like others say who don't understand scripture. Yes, they both, the husband and wife, have their own roles to play in the marriage and both are equally important. Yes, exactly Also, just wanted to point this out... Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Notice how it says "and thy desire shall be to thy husband". Well, in the ESV (English Standard Version) it says this, Genesis 3:16 To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be contrary to your husband, but he shall rule over you.” Now, this is pretty obviously saying that what the wife wants will not be what the husband wants which is the opposite of what the KJV and most other Bible versions say. Another one, the EXB (Expanded Bible), says, Genesis 3:16 Then God said to the woman, “I will cause you to have much trouble [or increase your pain] when you are pregnant [in childbearing], and when you give birth to children, you will have great pain. You will greatly desire[ the word implies a desire to control;] your husband, but he will rule over you.” Obviously not saying the same thing as well, but that the wife will desire to control her husband, while all the other versions say about the same as the KJV. The NLT (New Living Translation) says the same as the EXB as well. The Douay-Rheims 1899 version and the Wycliffe Bible completely cut out that part of the verse and put something like "and thou shalt be under thy husband's power" rather than saying "and thy desire shall be to thy husband". This just goes to show that sometimes people have their doctrines messed up because of the specific Bible they are reading. In this case in the subject of marriage, some wives will be made to believe that what they want will be contrary to what their husbands want and they will think it is normal to be contrary to their husbands, but this mode of thought doesn't promote teamwork at all. And others will be made to believe that they will want to control their husbands and that it is a normal thing to want to control their husbands, but this mode of thought doesn't promote teamwork either. These as well as others will never be told that their desire should only be to their husbands because their Bible never told them that. Thoughts? Comments? Mkay, you can start first on the roles of men and women Yes, this is correct. No. You are one flesh until one dies. No exceptions for the Christian. About the unChristian brother/sister we don't care and can let them depart. They will go to hell so doesn't matter what they do anyway since they have free will and we can't force them to do things differently. But a Christian brother/sister knows they're one flesh until death and only after can marry since are free from being one anymore. 1 Corinthians 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. Yes, correct. Plus when 2 become one flesh it only makes sense they will work as one team and desire to do so. Otherwise the household will be unstable. And I can start the roles of men and women if you'd like or you can. Unless there is something in this post you disagree with or want to further discuss. Yes, we spoke about this. I had made a mistake/was confusing the brother/sister with a Christian brother/sister in the verse I was talking about in my previous post. I stand corrected. No, we can move on to roles of men and women, you can start if you don't mind. If you do I can start, it's fine either way
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 6, 2019 6:00:14 GMT
Yes, this is correct. No. You are one flesh until one dies. No exceptions for the Christian. About the unChristian brother/sister we don't care and can let them depart. They will go to hell so doesn't matter what they do anyway since they have free will and we can't force them to do things differently. But a Christian brother/sister knows they're one flesh until death and only after can marry since are free from being one anymore. 1 Corinthians 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. Yes, correct. Plus when 2 become one flesh it only makes sense they will work as one team and desire to do so. Otherwise the household will be unstable. And I can start the roles of men and women if you'd like or you can. Unless there is something in this post you disagree with or want to further discuss. Yes, we spoke about this. I had made a mistake/was confusing the brother/sister with a Christian brother/sister in the verse I was talking about in my previous post. I stand corrected. No, we can move on to roles of men and women, you can start if you don't mind. If you do I can start, it's fine either way Well, I had to correct you. I know I rebuked you instantly as first verse below states and even did it sharply too but that's allowed too as second verse below says since it's all a big deal because it's dealing with eternity. So, I rebuke sharply when I freak out and worry when a person I know took a big dive into the wrong place. 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith Ok I can start. A man must rule the household when he's married. He needs to make sure all is pleasing to God. Meaning he must love his wife as himself and his children if he has any. He must also make sure they focus on God. He must make sure children are being taught right and that the family sets time for church and so on. 1 Timothy 3:5 For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God? A man can also help take care of the church if he takes care of his own home right. This means the building and the people in it. If he takes care of the home and family then he may take care of the church building and the people in it too if he'd like. The man cannot have his head covered. Long hair is only for females. He will dishonor himself before God. God is not ok with transgenders but real men. 1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? A woman may not teach (as in preach to the congregation) inside God's church. The man is the head and runs the church for God so he must do it as at home in a marriage. She can still help since she was created as the "help meet" but she doesn't take administrative/authoritative tasks. She can help with decoration or set up or whatever men need help with and support in all ways. Otherwise she remains silent because it's not her place to run. 1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. A woman must also act like a woman and have long hair as a head covering. God doesn't want transgenders because they're a shame. She must be what God made her. Her head cannot be shaved off short like a man. 1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 1 Corinthians 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. There's my start. agree? Disagree? What do you have to add?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 8, 2019 4:44:53 GMT
Yes, we spoke about this. I had made a mistake/was confusing the brother/sister with a Christian brother/sister in the verse I was talking about in my previous post. I stand corrected. No, we can move on to roles of men and women, you can start if you don't mind. If you do I can start, it's fine either way Well, I had to correct you. I know I rebuked you instantly as first verse below states and even did it sharply too but that's allowed too as second verse below says since it's all a big deal because it's dealing with eternity. So, I rebuke sharply when I freak out and worry when a person I know took a big dive into the wrong place. 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith Ok I can start. A man must rule the household when he's married. He needs to make sure all is pleasing to God. Meaning he must love his wife as himself and his children if he has any. He must also make sure they focus on God. He must make sure children are being taught right and that the family sets time for church and so on. 1 Timothy 3:5 For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God? A man can also help take care of the church if he takes care of his own home right. This means the building and the people in it. If he takes care of the home and family then he may take care of the church building and the people in it too if he'd like. The man cannot have his head covered. Long hair is only for females. He will dishonor himself before God. God is not ok with transgenders but real men. 1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? A woman may not teach (as in preach to the congregation) inside God's church. The man is the head and runs the church for God so he must do it as at home in a marriage. She can still help since she was created as the "help meet" but she doesn't take administrative/authoritative tasks. She can help with decoration or set up or whatever men need help with and support in all ways. Otherwise she remains silent because it's not her place to run. 1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. A woman must also act like a woman and have long hair as a head covering. God doesn't want transgenders because they're a shame. She must be what God made her. Her head cannot be shaved off short like a man. 1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 1 Corinthians 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. There's my start. agree? Disagree? What do you have to add? I know. We are commanded to rebuke and reprove, and to do it on the spot, but to be patient when we do it and to do it with love, not to try to make the other person look stupid or alienate them or anything like that. Thank you for correcting me Yes, this is correct. The husband is to rule his own house, which is the wife and their children. The wife told to be in subjection to her husband and the children are told to obey their parents, Ephesians 5:23-24 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Yes The verse you quoted from 1 Timothy 3 is just one of the qualifications for the office of bishop within a church. And yes, men not having their head covered is commanded in this verse, 1 Corinthians 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. We are commanded to pray without ceasing... 1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. ...so if a man has long hair is commanded to pray without ceasing, he is dishonoring his head, which is Christ, 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. and women are to have long hair, as a covering, because it is a glory to her as her hair is given to be a covering for her, and if she prays with her head uncovered she dishonors her head, which is her husband if she is married, 1 Corinthians 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. Yes, this is correct. Yes, God does not want men taking the role of women or vice versa, He made us the way we are and wants us to stay that way. The effeminate, of course this means effeminate men because women are naturally effeminate as God made them that way, will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And yes, God does not want transgenders or transexuals, they go against nature, so God gives them up to their own vile affections, Romans 1:26-27 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And yes, we both quoted the same verses to show how God wants a woman to have long hair I agree with it all I'll add that while women are not supposed teach within the church, they can teach outside the church, Titus 2:3-5 3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. And women can also prophesy(preach) as there were many prophetesses, Exodus 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. Judges 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. 2 Kings 22:14 So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college;) and they communed with her. Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; ...and even a women apostle mentioned by Paul in Romans, Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. ...women were just not allowed to preach and teach within a church as we covered earlier(1 Timothy 2:12) the women cannot usurp the authority of the men in the church. Agree? Thoughts? Anything to add?
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 25, 2019 3:35:30 GMT
Well, I had to correct you. I know I rebuked you instantly as first verse below states and even did it sharply too but that's allowed too as second verse below says since it's all a big deal because it's dealing with eternity. So, I rebuke sharply when I freak out and worry when a person I know took a big dive into the wrong place. 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith Ok I can start. A man must rule the household when he's married. He needs to make sure all is pleasing to God. Meaning he must love his wife as himself and his children if he has any. He must also make sure they focus on God. He must make sure children are being taught right and that the family sets time for church and so on. 1 Timothy 3:5 For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God? A man can also help take care of the church if he takes care of his own home right. This means the building and the people in it. If he takes care of the home and family then he may take care of the church building and the people in it too if he'd like. The man cannot have his head covered. Long hair is only for females. He will dishonor himself before God. God is not ok with transgenders but real men. 1 Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? A woman may not teach (as in preach to the congregation) inside God's church. The man is the head and runs the church for God so he must do it as at home in a marriage. She can still help since she was created as the "help meet" but she doesn't take administrative/authoritative tasks. She can help with decoration or set up or whatever men need help with and support in all ways. Otherwise she remains silent because it's not her place to run. 1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. A woman must also act like a woman and have long hair as a head covering. God doesn't want transgenders because they're a shame. She must be what God made her. Her head cannot be shaved off short like a man. 1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 1 Corinthians 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. There's my start. agree? Disagree? What do you have to add? I know. We are commanded to rebuke and reprove, and to do it on the spot, but to be patient when we do it and to do it with love, not to try to make the other person look stupid or alienate them or anything like that. Thank you for correcting me Yes, this is correct. The husband is to rule his own house, which is the wife and their children. The wife told to be in subjection to her husband and the children are told to obey their parents, Ephesians 5:23-24 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Yes The verse you quoted from 1 Timothy 3 is just one of the qualifications for the office of bishop within a church. And yes, men not having their head covered is commanded in this verse, 1 Corinthians 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. We are commanded to pray without ceasing... 1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. ...so if a man has long hair is commanded to pray without ceasing, he is dishonoring his head, which is Christ, 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. and women are to have long hair, as a covering, because it is a glory to her as her hair is given to be a covering for her, and if she prays with her head uncovered she dishonors her head, which is her husband if she is married, 1 Corinthians 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. Yes, this is correct. Yes, God does not want men taking the role of women or vice versa, He made us the way we are and wants us to stay that way. The effeminate, of course this means effeminate men because women are naturally effeminate as God made them that way, will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And yes, God does not want transgenders or transexuals, they go against nature, so God gives them up to their own vile affections, Romans 1:26-27 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And yes, we both quoted the same verses to show how God wants a woman to have long hair I agree with it all I'll add that while women are not supposed teach within the church, they can teach outside the church, Titus 2:3-5 3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. And women can also prophesy(preach) as there were many prophetesses, Exodus 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. Judges 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. 2 Kings 22:14 So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college;) and they communed with her. Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; ...and even a women apostle mentioned by Paul in Romans, Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. ...women were just not allowed to preach and teach within a church as we covered earlier(1 Timothy 2:12) the women cannot usurp the authority of the men in the church. Agree? Thoughts? Anything to add? I agree and dont currently have anything to add. Do you have anything else to add? Otherwise was hoping to start another topic.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Feb 26, 2019 1:35:08 GMT
I know. We are commanded to rebuke and reprove, and to do it on the spot, but to be patient when we do it and to do it with love, not to try to make the other person look stupid or alienate them or anything like that. Thank you for correcting me Yes, this is correct. The husband is to rule his own house, which is the wife and their children. The wife told to be in subjection to her husband and the children are told to obey their parents, Ephesians 5:23-24 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Yes The verse you quoted from 1 Timothy 3 is just one of the qualifications for the office of bishop within a church. And yes, men not having their head covered is commanded in this verse, 1 Corinthians 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. We are commanded to pray without ceasing... 1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. ...so if a man has long hair is commanded to pray without ceasing, he is dishonoring his head, which is Christ, 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. and women are to have long hair, as a covering, because it is a glory to her as her hair is given to be a covering for her, and if she prays with her head uncovered she dishonors her head, which is her husband if she is married, 1 Corinthians 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 1 Corinthians 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. Yes, this is correct. Yes, God does not want men taking the role of women or vice versa, He made us the way we are and wants us to stay that way. The effeminate, of course this means effeminate men because women are naturally effeminate as God made them that way, will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And yes, God does not want transgenders or transexuals, they go against nature, so God gives them up to their own vile affections, Romans 1:26-27 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And yes, we both quoted the same verses to show how God wants a woman to have long hair I agree with it all I'll add that while women are not supposed teach within the church, they can teach outside the church, Titus 2:3-5 3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. And women can also prophesy(preach) as there were many prophetesses, Exodus 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. Judges 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. 2 Kings 22:14 So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college;) and they communed with her. Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; ...and even a women apostle mentioned by Paul in Romans, Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. ...women were just not allowed to preach and teach within a church as we covered earlier(1 Timothy 2:12) the women cannot usurp the authority of the men in the church. Agree? Thoughts? Anything to add? I agree and dont currently have anything to add. Do you have anything else to add? Otherwise was hoping to start another topic. Nope, I have nothing more to add. What topic would you like to move on to?
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 26, 2019 5:30:46 GMT
I agree and dont currently have anything to add. Do you have anything else to add? Otherwise was hoping to start another topic. Nope, I have nothing more to add. What topic would you like to move on to? How about the topic of life and when it begins? If that works with you, I'd also like to start it.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Mar 3, 2019 6:50:26 GMT
Nope, I have nothing more to add. What topic would you like to move on to? How about the topic of life and when it begins? If that works with you, I'd also like to start it. Yes, that's a good topic Mkay, you can start it
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 4, 2019 8:03:03 GMT
How about the topic of life and when it begins? If that works with you, I'd also like to start it. Yes, that's a good topic Mkay, you can start it So the topic of when life begins... The moment the man gives a male or female sperm to the woman and she conceives then they are parents of a living being. At conception is when it's already known if male or female which we know from scripture too. Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. These verses mean from the moment the sperm enters the egg that we have the gender. And we can only get a gender whether male or female if it's a living thing and exists. Also the first verse mentions that a child starts from conception. This means a child will be present in the womb first and then at birth too. So a child's life then starts inside the womb. Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived. Plus, there's Jesus. This verse says He came upon her at conception. This means He started His human form then as a child inside the womb. Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. So this means at conception we have a child and a gender. Last time I checked a child of any gender was a living being. God Himself made sure the child was safe while forming as a full human in the womb. This meant He made sure Mary wasn't stoned to death and that no one who wanted to harm the living child in her (like Herod) would be able to. Why? Because it's a life. Even God cares for the beings inside the mother as He finishes forming them. He said so Himself... Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. In that verse he told the prophet He knew him in the belly! Not only that but He knew him before he even was in the belly! This is because God knows everything and everyone and who He plans to make one day. So how can we stand in the way of who He plans to form? How can we (who claim to be His followers) say, "No, you can't make him/her?" The only one who rejects God and His plans are those who will be cast into the lake of fire. Going against God will fail you in the end. Exodus 15:7 And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble. Deuteronomy 6:15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth. When God comes to punish them it wont be good for them Jeremiah 50:31 Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord GOD of hosts: for thy day is come, the time that I will visit thee. So when God says this (below verse) of every human He makes...I wouldn't dare stand in the way. He seems happy of His creation so if I interfere it won't end well for me. Isaiah 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. Because when He's forming something He plans to establish what He forms to where it must go and what it must do. We can't stand in the way of God in what He wants unless we're not for God. Jeremiah 33:2 Thus saith the LORD the maker thereof, the LORD that formed it, to establish it; the LORD is his name. And what every female knows...is when she has conceived a living child inside her...her period stops to have the blood go to the living child. Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. We can't even mess with blood like eating blood which pagan religions do. Leviticus 17:12-14 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood. And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off. And NT..... Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. This blood thing goes into loving your neighbor commandment and into do not kill commandment, except animals which we can kill to eat but not eat their blood. So whoever wants to kill and get blood on their hands then so be it. They'll just reap what they sow. Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Mar 6, 2019 3:07:17 GMT
Yes, that's a good topic Mkay, you can start it So the topic of when life begins... The moment the man gives a male or female sperm to the woman and she conceives then they are parents of a living being. At conception is when it's already known if male or female which we know from scripture too. Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. These verses mean from the moment the sperm enters the egg that we have the gender. And we can only get a gender whether male or female if it's a living thing and exists. Also the first verse mentions that a child starts from conception. This means a child will be present in the womb first and then at birth too. So a child's life then starts inside the womb. Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived. Plus, there's Jesus. This verse says He came upon her at conception. This means He started His human form then as a child inside the womb. Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. So this means at conception we have a child and a gender. Last time I checked a child of any gender was a living being. God Himself made sure the child was safe while forming as a full human in the womb. This meant He made sure Mary wasn't stoned to death and that no one who wanted to harm the living child in her (like Herod) would be able to. Why? Because it's a life. Even God cares for the beings inside the mother as He finishes forming them. He said so Himself... Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. In that verse he told the prophet He knew him in the belly! Not only that but He knew him before he even was in the belly! This is because God knows everything and everyone and who He plans to make one day. So how can we stand in the way of who He plans to form? How can we (who claim to be His followers) say, "No, you can't make him/her?" The only one who rejects God and His plans are those who will be cast into the lake of fire. Going against God will fail you in the end. Exodus 15:7 And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble. Deuteronomy 6:15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth. When God comes to punish them it wont be good for them Jeremiah 50:31 Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord GOD of hosts: for thy day is come, the time that I will visit thee. So when God says this (below verse) of every human He makes...I wouldn't dare stand in the way. He seems happy of His creation so if I interfere it won't end well for me. Isaiah 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. Because when He's forming something He plans to establish what He forms to where it must go and what it must do. We can't stand in the way of God in what He wants unless we're not for God. Jeremiah 33:2 Thus saith the LORD the maker thereof, the LORD that formed it, to establish it; the LORD is his name. And what every female knows...is when she has conceived a living child inside her...her period stops to have the blood go to the living child. Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. We can't even mess with blood like eating blood which pagan religions do. Leviticus 17:12-14 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood. And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off. And NT..... Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. This blood thing goes into loving your neighbor commandment and into do not kill commandment, except animals which we can kill to eat but not eat their blood. So whoever wants to kill and get blood on their hands then so be it. They'll just reap what they sow. Agree? Disagree? Thoughts? Yes I agree The Bible clearly states that the point of conception is a life and considered a child that is already gendered. There are people today who would like us all to think that life begins when there's a heartbeat, or after a certain number of weeks, but this is not the truth. And some people will go as far as to say that a child in the womb is not a child at all until the mother has given birth, and that the child is considered a parasite until then these people need serious help. But yes, God forms us in the womb, Psalm 139:13-16 13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. We can't deny God of His will. If we do we will end up in hell with everyone else who goes against the will of God. Nobody can stand against God. So abortions would be considered going against God's will, it would be considered murder since the moment of conception is a life and those who murder will have their part in hell, Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Even in the ordinances of the OT God would have those who killed the child in a mother's womb would be put to death, Exodus 21:22-25 22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. Ending the life of a child in the womb is clearly considered murder according to God. Some would say in the case of rape that an abortion is justified, but it is not and is still murder. Not only is it murder, but it is not the baby's fault that the mother was raped, so it would be ending an innocent person's life for someone else's wrong. People who believe abortion after rape is justified should seriously reconsider their belief. Some would also say an abortion is justified if having the child puts the mother's or child's life at risk, but this is not a reason for an abortion either. It is still considered murder. To begin with, these kind of situations are very rare in themselves and the situation can usually be resolved by doing a C-section. Many, many doctors say that abortions are never medically necessary; they are right. In another thread here on the forum, we found through research that a woman's overall health suffers after an abortion, even more reason not to conduct them. One thing we must always remember is that God is all powerful and can and has worked miracles that unbelievers consider impossible and by these miracles people are made into believers, Hebrews 2:3-4 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? ...but God may also decide that a person's time is up. God gives and God takes away, Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord. Agree? Disagree? Thoughts? Would you say that an unbeliever who has had an abortion or birth control in the past will be forgiven if they turn to God?
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 11, 2019 1:47:33 GMT
So the topic of when life begins... The moment the man gives a male or female sperm to the woman and she conceives then they are parents of a living being. At conception is when it's already known if male or female which we know from scripture too. Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. These verses mean from the moment the sperm enters the egg that we have the gender. And we can only get a gender whether male or female if it's a living thing and exists. Also the first verse mentions that a child starts from conception. This means a child will be present in the womb first and then at birth too. So a child's life then starts inside the womb. Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived. Plus, there's Jesus. This verse says He came upon her at conception. This means He started His human form then as a child inside the womb. Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. So this means at conception we have a child and a gender. Last time I checked a child of any gender was a living being. God Himself made sure the child was safe while forming as a full human in the womb. This meant He made sure Mary wasn't stoned to death and that no one who wanted to harm the living child in her (like Herod) would be able to. Why? Because it's a life. Even God cares for the beings inside the mother as He finishes forming them. He said so Himself... Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. In that verse he told the prophet He knew him in the belly! Not only that but He knew him before he even was in the belly! This is because God knows everything and everyone and who He plans to make one day. So how can we stand in the way of who He plans to form? How can we (who claim to be His followers) say, "No, you can't make him/her?" The only one who rejects God and His plans are those who will be cast into the lake of fire. Going against God will fail you in the end. Exodus 15:7 And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble. Deuteronomy 6:15 (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth. When God comes to punish them it wont be good for them Jeremiah 50:31 Behold, I am against thee, O thou most proud, saith the Lord GOD of hosts: for thy day is come, the time that I will visit thee. So when God says this (below verse) of every human He makes...I wouldn't dare stand in the way. He seems happy of His creation so if I interfere it won't end well for me. Isaiah 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. Because when He's forming something He plans to establish what He forms to where it must go and what it must do. We can't stand in the way of God in what He wants unless we're not for God. Jeremiah 33:2 Thus saith the LORD the maker thereof, the LORD that formed it, to establish it; the LORD is his name. And what every female knows...is when she has conceived a living child inside her...her period stops to have the blood go to the living child. Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. We can't even mess with blood like eating blood which pagan religions do. Leviticus 17:12-14 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood. And whatsoever man there be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, which hunteth and catcheth any beast or fowl that may be eaten; he shall even pour out the blood thereof, and cover it with dust. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off. And NT..... Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. This blood thing goes into loving your neighbor commandment and into do not kill commandment, except animals which we can kill to eat but not eat their blood. So whoever wants to kill and get blood on their hands then so be it. They'll just reap what they sow. Agree? Disagree? Thoughts? Yes I agree The Bible clearly states that the point of conception is a life and considered a child that is already gendered. There are people today who would like us all to think that life begins when there's a heartbeat, or after a certain number of weeks, but this is not the truth. And some people will go as far as to say that a child in the womb is not a child at all until the mother has given birth, and that the child is considered a parasite until then these people need serious help. But yes, God forms us in the womb, Psalm 139:13-16 13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. We can't deny God of His will. If we do we will end up in hell with everyone else who goes against the will of God. Nobody can stand against God. So abortions would be considered going against God's will, it would be considered murder since the moment of conception is a life and those who murder will have their part in hell, Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Even in the ordinances of the OT God would have those who killed the child in a mother's womb would be put to death, Exodus 21:22-25 22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. Ending the life of a child in the womb is clearly considered murder according to God. Some would say in the case of rape that an abortion is justified, but it is not and is still murder. Not only is it murder, but it is not the baby's fault that the mother was raped, so it would be ending an innocent person's life for someone else's wrong. People who believe abortion after rape is justified should seriously reconsider their belief. Some would also say an abortion is justified if having the child puts the mother's or child's life at risk, but this is not a reason for an abortion either. It is still considered murder. To begin with, these kind of situations are very rare in themselves and the situation can usually be resolved by doing a C-section. Many, many doctors say that abortions are never medically necessary; they are right. In another thread here on the forum, we found through research that a woman's overall health suffers after an abortion, even more reason not to conduct them. One thing we must always remember is that God is all powerful and can and has worked miracles that unbelievers consider impossible and by these miracles people are made into believers, Hebrews 2:3-4 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? ...but God may also decide that a person's time is up. God gives and God takes away, Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord. Agree? Disagree? Thoughts? Would you say that an unbeliever who has had an abortion or birth control in the past will be forgiven if they turn to God? I agree with all of that Also, to those who say that it's better for the mother to kill the baby within her then... 2 Corinthians 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: We give ourselves a death sentence by trusting in ourselves/our knowlege/our ways. God knows what He's doing. He has everything under control. If the child doesn't need to be born then God will do a miscarriage. We don't need to do anything ourselves. God gives and God takes away. Not God gives and we take away. (And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. Job 1:21) So if the woman with child comes to trouble or if anyone comes to trouble in general, then it's time to trust God. He will take over. Those who don't trust Him, He doesn't know them. And if He doesn't know you then you won't enter heaven. You're not His child. Hahum 1:7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. So those who don't trust in God, He doesn't know them as His. Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. And in the end we must learn to trust like Job. He wouldn't have tried to harm his child in his wife's womb if Satan was using the child to give her pain for him to reject God. Job did this always when he had trouble... In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly. Job 1:22 Job always knew God was in control. His wife may not have been God's child but He was. Job 2:9-10 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. No matter what happens we must trust in God and dare not sin against him. God was proud of Job. He needs to be proud of us too and be able to say this of us too.... Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?God needs us to be perfect, upright, in fear of Him, and one who eschweth evil. This is the man God will be pleased of. Job was that man and God showed him off to all. He's still showing him off. He wanted him in scripture to be read of always. Job trusteth God and let God rule His life which made him perfect, upright, etc. So there's never a need to think God isn't in control of a pregnancy or anything else. Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. We just trust God with Job and watch God do what needs to be done. And God will bless His children who trust Him. Job 42:12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she donkeys. Luke 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Yes. Killers can be forgiven. Paul was. Plus at times God will stop sins Himself. Usually He won't unless it really interferes with His plan. Like He had to stay alive as baby Jesus so He made sure He wasn't killed like He was going to be as a child. There are babies who survive abortions. Because God really needed that kid for something so he interfered. Birth control is weak against God. God can make anyone pregnant even a virgin or those barren if He needs them to have a child. Heck even can be a male if He wanted roles changed. Nothing can stop God if it needs to be done. Otherwise He will let you sin and go to hell if it's what the person wants.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Mar 13, 2019 6:17:48 GMT
Yes I agree The Bible clearly states that the point of conception is a life and considered a child that is already gendered. There are people today who would like us all to think that life begins when there's a heartbeat, or after a certain number of weeks, but this is not the truth. And some people will go as far as to say that a child in the womb is not a child at all until the mother has given birth, and that the child is considered a parasite until then these people need serious help. But yes, God forms us in the womb, Psalm 139:13-16 13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. We can't deny God of His will. If we do we will end up in hell with everyone else who goes against the will of God. Nobody can stand against God. So abortions would be considered going against God's will, it would be considered murder since the moment of conception is a life and those who murder will have their part in hell, Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Even in the ordinances of the OT God would have those who killed the child in a mother's womb would be put to death, Exodus 21:22-25 22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, 24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. Ending the life of a child in the womb is clearly considered murder according to God. Some would say in the case of rape that an abortion is justified, but it is not and is still murder. Not only is it murder, but it is not the baby's fault that the mother was raped, so it would be ending an innocent person's life for someone else's wrong. People who believe abortion after rape is justified should seriously reconsider their belief. Some would also say an abortion is justified if having the child puts the mother's or child's life at risk, but this is not a reason for an abortion either. It is still considered murder. To begin with, these kind of situations are very rare in themselves and the situation can usually be resolved by doing a C-section. Many, many doctors say that abortions are never medically necessary; they are right. In another thread here on the forum, we found through research that a woman's overall health suffers after an abortion, even more reason not to conduct them. One thing we must always remember is that God is all powerful and can and has worked miracles that unbelievers consider impossible and by these miracles people are made into believers, Hebrews 2:3-4 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? ...but God may also decide that a person's time is up. God gives and God takes away, Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord. Agree? Disagree? Thoughts? Would you say that an unbeliever who has had an abortion or birth control in the past will be forgiven if they turn to God? I agree with all of that Also, to those who say that it's better for the mother to kill the baby within her then... 2 Corinthians 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: We give ourselves a death sentence by trusting in ourselves/our knowlege/our ways. God knows what He's doing. He has everything under control. If the child doesn't need to be born then God will do a miscarriage. We don't need to do anything ourselves. God gives and God takes away. Not God gives and we take away. (And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. Job 1:21) So if the woman with child comes to trouble or if anyone comes to trouble in general, then it's time to trust God. He will take over. Those who don't trust Him, He doesn't know them. And if He doesn't know you then you won't enter heaven. You're not His child. Hahum 1:7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. So those who don't trust in God, He doesn't know them as His. Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. And in the end we must learn to trust like Job. He wouldn't have tried to harm his child in his wife's womb if Satan was using the child to give her pain for him to reject God. Job did this always when he had trouble... In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly. Job 1:22 Job always knew God was in control. His wife may not have been God's child but He was. Job 2:9-10 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. No matter what happens we must trust in God and dare not sin against him. God was proud of Job. He needs to be proud of us too and be able to say this of us too.... Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?God needs us to be perfect, upright, in fear of Him, and one who eschweth evil. This is the man God will be pleased of. Job was that man and God showed him off to all. He's still showing him off. He wanted him in scripture to be read of always. Job trusteth God and let God rule His life which made him perfect, upright, etc. So there's never a need to think God isn't in control of a pregnancy or anything else. Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. We just trust God with Job and watch God do what needs to be done. And God will bless His children who trust Him. Job 42:12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she donkeys. Luke 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Yes. Killers can be forgiven. Paul was. Plus at times God will stop sins Himself. Usually He won't unless it really interferes with His plan. Like He had to stay alive as baby Jesus so He made sure He wasn't killed like He was going to be as a child. There are babies who survive abortions. Because God really needed that kid for something so he interfered. Birth control is weak against God. God can make anyone pregnant even a virgin or those barren if He needs them to have a child. Heck even can be a male if He wanted roles changed. Nothing can stop God if it needs to be done. Otherwise He will let you sin and go to hell if it's what the person wants. Yes I completely agree God commands us to not to kill. Jesus says to the rich man in Matthew 19, Luke 18, and Mark 10 that not only must we keep the commandments but we must also put all of our faith and trust in God. Keeping the commandments is a reflection of our faith, it shows that we truly do love Him. One of those commandments was "Thou shall not kill" so anyone who does not keep His commandments is not of God, 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. The rich man asks what he must do to have eternal life, and Jesus tells him that he must keep the commandments, Matthew 19:16-19 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. And all these verses here which tell us to keep the commandments if we love Him, those who do love Him keep His commandments, and those who do are His children, John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Just so much supporting this, but the point I am making is that God does not want us to kill at all, it is a sin in His book. So abortion being the killing of a person is a sin; it is giving a child the death penalty for someone else's actions. And this leads also into the subject of capital punishment which is also contrary to God's word "Thou shall not kill". It is really very clearly obvious that when you kill someone who you are not loving them, Paul points out how following the commandments is loving others, Romans 13:8-10 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. You cannot do any ill will to your neighbor if you follow God's commandments, that is a fact. I also completely agree with this Agree? Disagree? Comments?
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Post by Elizabeth on Mar 26, 2019 4:26:45 GMT
I agree with all of that Also, to those who say that it's better for the mother to kill the baby within her then... 2 Corinthians 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: We give ourselves a death sentence by trusting in ourselves/our knowlege/our ways. God knows what He's doing. He has everything under control. If the child doesn't need to be born then God will do a miscarriage. We don't need to do anything ourselves. God gives and God takes away. Not God gives and we take away. (And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. Job 1:21) So if the woman with child comes to trouble or if anyone comes to trouble in general, then it's time to trust God. He will take over. Those who don't trust Him, He doesn't know them. And if He doesn't know you then you won't enter heaven. You're not His child. Hahum 1:7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. So those who don't trust in God, He doesn't know them as His. Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. And in the end we must learn to trust like Job. He wouldn't have tried to harm his child in his wife's womb if Satan was using the child to give her pain for him to reject God. Job did this always when he had trouble... In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly. Job 1:22 Job always knew God was in control. His wife may not have been God's child but He was. Job 2:9-10 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips. No matter what happens we must trust in God and dare not sin against him. God was proud of Job. He needs to be proud of us too and be able to say this of us too.... Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?God needs us to be perfect, upright, in fear of Him, and one who eschweth evil. This is the man God will be pleased of. Job was that man and God showed him off to all. He's still showing him off. He wanted him in scripture to be read of always. Job trusteth God and let God rule His life which made him perfect, upright, etc. So there's never a need to think God isn't in control of a pregnancy or anything else. Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. We just trust God with Job and watch God do what needs to be done. And God will bless His children who trust Him. Job 42:12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she donkeys. Luke 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Yes. Killers can be forgiven. Paul was. Plus at times God will stop sins Himself. Usually He won't unless it really interferes with His plan. Like He had to stay alive as baby Jesus so He made sure He wasn't killed like He was going to be as a child. There are babies who survive abortions. Because God really needed that kid for something so he interfered. Birth control is weak against God. God can make anyone pregnant even a virgin or those barren if He needs them to have a child. Heck even can be a male if He wanted roles changed. Nothing can stop God if it needs to be done. Otherwise He will let you sin and go to hell if it's what the person wants. Yes I completely agree God commands us to not to kill. Jesus says to the rich man in Matthew 19, Luke 18, and Mark 10 that not only must we keep the commandments but we must also put all of our faith and trust in God. Keeping the commandments is a reflection of our faith, it shows that we truly do love Him. One of those commandments was "Thou shall not kill" so anyone who does not keep His commandments is not of God, 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. The rich man asks what he must do to have eternal life, and Jesus tells him that he must keep the commandments, Matthew 19:16-19 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. And all these verses here which tell us to keep the commandments if we love Him, those who do love Him keep His commandments, and those who do are His children, John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Just so much supporting this, but the point I am making is that God does not want us to kill at all, it is a sin in His book. So abortion being the killing of a person is a sin; it is giving a child the death penalty for someone else's actions. And this leads also into the subject of capital punishment which is also contrary to God's word "Thou shall not kill". It is really very clearly obvious that when you kill someone who you are not loving them, Paul points out how following the commandments is loving others, Romans 13:8-10 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. You cannot do any ill will to your neighbor if you follow God's commandments, that is a fact. I also completely agree with this Agree? Disagree? Comments? I agree with all of this. I also wanted to point out something. People thought on Sabbath days you took a break from doing good like loving your neighbor and so on but Jesus was correcting people and saying we must still follow the rest of the commanments on the Sabbath day too. We do not take a day off on the commandments. We just take a day to rest physically and to spend more on commandments actually since with a day off we have extra time to do more good. I'm specifically talking about this verse.... Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it? Luke 6:9 It's clear that in the verse Jesus said saving a life is good while destroying (letting a life die or killing a life) is evil. So, if we are to do good as we are instructed on all days including the Sabbath then how can we kill a human being...ever? Clearly, killing is evil so abortionists/murderers are evil and they do not enter the kingdom of God. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8 Because we're instructed to do good in EVERY good work. Every work means ALWAYS doing good on every single day. And always doesn't have a sometimes bad or a sometimes kill day. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:2 Corinthians 9:8 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every[/b] good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; Colossians 1:10 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.2 Timothy 2:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Hebrews 13:21 Otherwise...we are reprobates which are wicked people who are rejected by God as suprisingly some definitions are this detailed of retrobates. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Titus 1:16 So if we don't learn to do good works very time then we're good for nothing. Jesus reminded them that there isn't a day off to save a life. Every day is a day to save a life. Every day is a day not to kill. Every day is a day is to follow every commandment. But those who took a day off on a sabbath or any day... Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. James 4:17 I don't want to be like the people God rejected who knew to do good but didn't. He will only put up for so long. He's patient but He won't wait forever. Nor will He accept lukewarm. For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. Jeremiah 4:22 Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?
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