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Post by Elizabeth on Sept 23, 2018 19:56:11 GMT
Just as cute pair unknown and Eodnhoj7 share a thread to discuss philosophy together, so Dk and I plan to share our own discussion too. Please refrain from comments here. You can make your own threads based off stuff here for your own separate discussions.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Nov 10, 2018 2:57:36 GMT
Yes, I agree with all that you said You brought up those who will believe and follow at first then end up falling away which is in this parable in Luke 8 and is one of my favorite if not my favorite parable, Luke 8:4-15 4 And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable: 5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. 6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. 7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. 8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. 9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? 10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. This parable has everything to do with salvation and the spreading of God's word. As we can see, there are 4 different types of people here that Jesus describes. The first heard God's word but didn't understand it, the devil comes and takes it from them, deceiving them, so they never had a chance to grow. The example of the seed on the way side given by Christ is perfect as a majority of plants/trees that produce fruit have a very, very difficult time growing on the sides of roads; they are neglected and/or abused when they need to be nurtured and cared for. Weeds(tares) on the other hand grow just fine on the sides of roads. The second are they that you gave the example of, those who heard God's word and received it with joy, but there was no good soil for their root take in on rocky ground, so their faith shrivels up and dies and in time they fall away to temptation. These are also those who fall away because in time of persecution they become offended and angry according to the parallel parables written in Matthew 13 and Mark 4; Peter is the perfect example of this when he got angry and denied Christ three times after being told by other people that they knew he was with Christ and even after Christ told him he would do it. The third are those who heard God's word but ended up caring more for the things pleasures of this world than for God and His word, bringing forth no good fruit; Demas who Paul mentions in 2 Timothy 4:10 is a perfect example having loved the things of the world more than God. And finally the 4th are those who hear the word, understand it and keep it, having good and honest hearts, a good strong healthy root, bringing forth much good fruit with patience: these are those who endure until the end. As we can see, there are many called, but only a few chosen; 4 types of people, three are not saved, and only one is. I agree about all of it And those who heard the word and keep it were taught by God. Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end. Psalm 119:33 Or do we seek instruction from others? I think that's a good next topic That is a good question. I would say we should seek God's instruction, as we can trust in Him for all things including, and most of all, instruction. Yes, there are some people, though not many, that do teach God's word in accordance with the Bible, but the Bible still tells us that we should not put our trust in men, ever. If we are to receive instruction from others, we should compare what they are teaching to God's word and if it does not match, then we should not hearken unto what they are saying, and depending on who it is(because many times there are wolves in sheep's clothing and they are spreading false doctrines on purpose) we should rebuke and reprove them. Many verses in Proverbs support receiving instruction from God, Proverbs 8:32-34 32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. 33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. 34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. Proverbs 15:33 The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility. Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life: Proverbs 8:10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold. And like children are supposed to listen and be taught by their parents, we too as God's children should hear and do our Father's instruction, Proverbs 13:1 A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke. God has always given instruction, from the very beginning with Adam and Eve... Genesis 2:16-17 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. ...to the latter times of Jeremiah... Jeremiah 35:13 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Go and tell the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, Will ye not receive instruction to hearken to my words? saith the Lord. ...and even today, 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: We should ask Him to teach us His ways, Psalm 25:4 Shew me thy ways, O Lord; teach me thy paths. Psalm 25:8 Good and upright is the Lord: therefore will he teach sinners in the way. Psalm 86:11 Teach me thy way, O Lord; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name. Psalm 119:12 Blessed art thou, O Lord: teach me thy statutes. And at times God will teach us by chastening us, Psalm 94:12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O Lord, and teachest him out of thy law; Because like a good and loving Father, God will discipline us to keep us in the right way, Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Proverbs 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction: 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. But when it comes to men, we should always be vigilant... 1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: ...because ravening wolves in sheep's clothing are out there and have been since the times of Christ who warned of them Himself, Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. They are Satan's ministers, 2 Corinthians 11:12-15 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. And not only were they around in the times of Christ, but before that also, Jeremiah 14:14 Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. There are so many instances in the Bible that warn of false preachers and teachers. Paul, while in Asia, warned of these false prophets as well, Acts 20:28-30 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Today we see this happening all time. There are tens of thousands of denominations in the world, many of them having doctrines that differ from God's word and putting trust in men who call themselves prophets of God making prophecies of their own that never come to fruition: all this happening even after all the warnings God gives us, it still happens. It is saddening :( Therefore, we should only put our trust in God, Proverbs 3:5-6 5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe. Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Psalm 5:11 But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee. Psalm 7:1 O Lord my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me: Psalm 9:10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, Lord, hast not forsaken them that seek thee. Psalm 16:1 Preserve me, O God: for in thee do I put my trust. Psalm 18:2 The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. Psalm 18:30 As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him. Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him. ...there are so many verses in Psalm about trusting in God, but many others elsewhere, especially this passage here, Jeremiah 17:5-8 5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord. 6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. 7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is. 8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit. I'm sure you have more to add
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 12, 2018 5:41:51 GMT
I agree about all of it And those who heard the word and keep it were taught by God. Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end. Psalm 119:33 Or do we seek instruction from others? I think that's a good next topic That is a good question. I would say we should seek God's instruction, as we can trust in Him for all things including, and most of all, instruction. Yes, there are some people, though not many, that do teach God's word in accordance with the Bible, but the Bible still tells us that we should not put our trust in men, ever. If we are to receive instruction from others, we should compare what they are teaching to God's word and if it does not match, then we should not hearken unto what they are saying, and depending on who it is(because many times there are wolves in sheep's clothing and they are spreading false doctrines on purpose) we should rebuke and reprove them. Many verses in Proverbs support receiving instruction from God, Proverbs 8:32-34 32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. 33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. 34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. Proverbs 15:33 The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility. Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life: Proverbs 8:10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold. And like children are supposed to listen and be taught by their parents, we too as God's children should hear and do our Father's instruction, Proverbs 13:1 A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke. God has always given instruction, from the very beginning with Adam and Eve... Genesis 2:16-17 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. ...to the latter times of Jeremiah... Jeremiah 35:13 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Go and tell the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, Will ye not receive instruction to hearken to my words? saith the Lord. ...and even today, 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: We should ask Him to teach us His ways, Psalm 25:4 Shew me thy ways, O Lord; teach me thy paths. Psalm 25:8 Good and upright is the Lord: therefore will he teach sinners in the way. Psalm 86:11 Teach me thy way, O Lord; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name. Psalm 119:12 Blessed art thou, O Lord: teach me thy statutes. And at times God will teach us by chastening us, Psalm 94:12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O Lord, and teachest him out of thy law; Because like a good and loving Father, God will discipline us to keep us in the right way, Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Proverbs 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction: 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. But when it comes to men, we should always be vigilant... 1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: ...because ravening wolves in sheep's clothing are out there and have been since the times of Christ who warned of them Himself, Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. They are Satan's ministers, 2 Corinthians 11:12-15 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. And not only were they around in the times of Christ, but before that also, Jeremiah 14:14 Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. There are so many instances in the Bible that warn of false preachers and teachers. Paul, while in Asia, warned of these false prophets as well, Acts 20:28-30 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Today we see this happening all time. There are tens of thousands of denominations in the world, many of them having doctrines that differ from God's word and putting trust in men who call themselves prophets of God making prophecies of their own that never come to fruition: all this happening even after all the warnings God gives us, it still happens. It is saddening :( Therefore, we should only put our trust in God, Proverbs 3:5-6 5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe. Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Psalm 5:11 But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee. Psalm 7:1 O Lord my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me: Psalm 9:10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, Lord, hast not forsaken them that seek thee. Psalm 16:1 Preserve me, O God: for in thee do I put my trust. Psalm 18:2 The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. Psalm 18:30 As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him. Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him. ...there are so many verses in Psalm about trusting in God, but many others elsewhere, especially this passage here, Jeremiah 17:5-8 5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord. 6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. 7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is. 8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit. I'm sure you have more to add I agree Plus God requests us to learn from HIM. Not from Buddha, Pope dude, etc. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Matthew 11:29 So the moment we realize that He is all we need we can find what we seek. Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments. Psalm 119:73 God made us for His purpose anyway. So I think we should discuss how He made us and fashioned us next? Or you have more to add to this?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Nov 14, 2018 5:01:53 GMT
That is a good question. I would say we should seek God's instruction, as we can trust in Him for all things including, and most of all, instruction. Yes, there are some people, though not many, that do teach God's word in accordance with the Bible, but the Bible still tells us that we should not put our trust in men, ever. If we are to receive instruction from others, we should compare what they are teaching to God's word and if it does not match, then we should not hearken unto what they are saying, and depending on who it is(because many times there are wolves in sheep's clothing and they are spreading false doctrines on purpose) we should rebuke and reprove them. Many verses in Proverbs support receiving instruction from God, Proverbs 8:32-34 32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. 33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. 34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. Proverbs 15:33 The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility. Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life: Proverbs 8:10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold. And like children are supposed to listen and be taught by their parents, we too as God's children should hear and do our Father's instruction, Proverbs 13:1 A wise son heareth his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke. God has always given instruction, from the very beginning with Adam and Eve... Genesis 2:16-17 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. ...to the latter times of Jeremiah... Jeremiah 35:13 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Go and tell the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, Will ye not receive instruction to hearken to my words? saith the Lord. ...and even today, 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: We should ask Him to teach us His ways, Psalm 25:4 Shew me thy ways, O Lord; teach me thy paths. Psalm 25:8 Good and upright is the Lord: therefore will he teach sinners in the way. Psalm 86:11 Teach me thy way, O Lord; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name. Psalm 119:12 Blessed art thou, O Lord: teach me thy statutes. And at times God will teach us by chastening us, Psalm 94:12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O Lord, and teachest him out of thy law; Because like a good and loving Father, God will discipline us to keep us in the right way, Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Proverbs 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction: 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. But when it comes to men, we should always be vigilant... 1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: ...because ravening wolves in sheep's clothing are out there and have been since the times of Christ who warned of them Himself, Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. They are Satan's ministers, 2 Corinthians 11:12-15 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. And not only were they around in the times of Christ, but before that also, Jeremiah 14:14 Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. There are so many instances in the Bible that warn of false preachers and teachers. Paul, while in Asia, warned of these false prophets as well, Acts 20:28-30 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Today we see this happening all time. There are tens of thousands of denominations in the world, many of them having doctrines that differ from God's word and putting trust in men who call themselves prophets of God making prophecies of their own that never come to fruition: all this happening even after all the warnings God gives us, it still happens. It is saddening :( Therefore, we should only put our trust in God, Proverbs 3:5-6 5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe. Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Psalm 5:11 But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee. Psalm 7:1 O Lord my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me: Psalm 9:10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, Lord, hast not forsaken them that seek thee. Psalm 16:1 Preserve me, O God: for in thee do I put my trust. Psalm 18:2 The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. Psalm 18:30 As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him. Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him. ...there are so many verses in Psalm about trusting in God, but many others elsewhere, especially this passage here, Jeremiah 17:5-8 5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord. 6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. 7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is. 8 For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit. I'm sure you have more to add I agree Plus God requests us to learn from HIM. Not from Buddha, Pope dude, etc. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Matthew 11:29 So the moment we realize that He is all we need we can find what we seek. Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments. Psalm 119:73 God made us for His purpose anyway. So I think we should discuss how He made us and fashioned us next? Or you have more to add to this? Mhmm, I agree I have no more to add on this subject, though I believe we slightly touched on the subject you want to discuss next already. God created man after His likeness and His image, Genesis 1:26-37 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. This doesn't mean that we were created in His bodily image as God doesn't have a body, He is a Spirit, the Spirit(Genesis 1:2, John 4:24), it means that we were created to resemble Him spiritually. In the beginning God created man and everything else and called it all very good, meaning man and everything in the world was perfect before the world fell into sin because of disobedience; man was righteous and holy like God, but there's no way man could ever be exactly like God. As you said, God made us for His glory, Isaiah 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: For I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. Psalm 100:3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. And when it says 'he had made us', the 'us' isn't everyone, but those who are after His likeness, His righteousness, it isn't our righteousness after all, Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 1 Samuel 26:23 The Lord render to every man his righteousness and his faithfulness; for the Lord delivered thee into my hand to day, but I would not stretch forth mine hand against the Lord's anointed. Psalm 7:17 I will praise the Lord according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the Lord most high. Psalm 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Jeremiah 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness. Our righteousness is as filthy rags before God, Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. This kinda stems back into salvation a little bit, but the Pharisees were guilty of this same self-righteousness; in Matthew 23, Jesus condemns their self-righteousness very harshly in where he calls them out on their hypocrisy and in Luke 18 Jesus gives a parable about self-righteousness, Luke 18:9-14 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. So we must humble ourselves and strive after that righteousness, that image, that likeness, which is of God. I'm sure you have more to add
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 17, 2018 6:11:45 GMT
I agree Plus God requests us to learn from HIM. Not from Buddha, Pope dude, etc. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Matthew 11:29 So the moment we realize that He is all we need we can find what we seek. Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may learn thy commandments. Psalm 119:73 God made us for His purpose anyway. So I think we should discuss how He made us and fashioned us next? Or you have more to add to this? Mhmm, I agree I have no more to add on this subject, though I believe we slightly touched on the subject you want to discuss next already. God created man after His likeness and His image, Genesis 1:26-37 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. This doesn't mean that we were created in His bodily image as God doesn't have a body, He is a Spirit, the Spirit(Genesis 1:2, John 4:24), it means that we were created to resemble Him spiritually. In the beginning God created man and everything else and called it all very good, meaning man and everything in the world was perfect before the world fell into sin because of disobedience; man was righteous and holy like God, but there's no way man could ever be exactly like God. As you said, God made us for His glory, Isaiah 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: For I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. Psalm 100:3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. And when it says 'he had made us', the 'us' isn't everyone, but those who are after His likeness, His righteousness, it isn't our righteousness after all, Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 1 Samuel 26:23 The Lord render to every man his righteousness and his faithfulness; for the Lord delivered thee into my hand to day, but I would not stretch forth mine hand against the Lord's anointed. Psalm 7:17 I will praise the Lord according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the Lord most high. Psalm 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Jeremiah 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness. Our righteousness is as filthy rags before God, Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. This kinda stems back into salvation a little bit, but the Pharisees were guilty of this same self-righteousness; in Matthew 23, Jesus condemns their self-righteousness very harshly in where he calls them out on their hypocrisy and in Luke 18 Jesus gives a parable about self-righteousness, Luke 18:9-14 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. So we must humble ourselves and strive after that righteousness, that image, that likeness, which is of God. I'm sure you have more to add What do you mean? Explain this more please. But I meant more about how God created us as in our bodies. I think this says it best... Psalm 139:1-16 1 O Lord, You have searched me and known me. 2 You know my sitting down and my rising up; You understand my thought afar off. 3 You comprehend my path and my lying down, And are acquainted with all my ways. 4 For there is not a word on my tongue, But behold, O Lord, You know it altogether. 5 You have hedged me behind and before, And laid Your hand upon me. 6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; It is high, I cannot attain it. 7 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? 8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, 10 Even there Your hand shall lead me, And Your right hand shall hold me. 11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,” Even the night shall be light about me; 12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You, But the night shines as the day; The darkness and the light are both alike to You. 13 For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb. 14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them. This says God knows everything about us. He knows our thoughts and what will do before it even takes place. It also says God knew what we would look like before we were made in the womb by Him. It also clarifies that God is a Spirit too. Thoughts? Additions?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Nov 20, 2018 1:24:03 GMT
Mhmm, I agree I have no more to add on this subject, though I believe we slightly touched on the subject you want to discuss next already. God created man after His likeness and His image, Genesis 1:26-37 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. This doesn't mean that we were created in His bodily image as God doesn't have a body, He is a Spirit, the Spirit(Genesis 1:2, John 4:24), it means that we were created to resemble Him spiritually. In the beginning God created man and everything else and called it all very good, meaning man and everything in the world was perfect before the world fell into sin because of disobedience; man was righteous and holy like God, but there's no way man could ever be exactly like God. As you said, God made us for His glory, Isaiah 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: For I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. Psalm 100:3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. And when it says 'he had made us', the 'us' isn't everyone, but those who are after His likeness, His righteousness, it isn't our righteousness after all, Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 1 Samuel 26:23 The Lord render to every man his righteousness and his faithfulness; for the Lord delivered thee into my hand to day, but I would not stretch forth mine hand against the Lord's anointed. Psalm 7:17 I will praise the Lord according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the Lord most high. Psalm 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Jeremiah 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness. Our righteousness is as filthy rags before God, Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. This kinda stems back into salvation a little bit, but the Pharisees were guilty of this same self-righteousness; in Matthew 23, Jesus condemns their self-righteousness very harshly in where he calls them out on their hypocrisy and in Luke 18 Jesus gives a parable about self-righteousness, Luke 18:9-14 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. So we must humble ourselves and strive after that righteousness, that image, that likeness, which is of God. I'm sure you have more to add What do you mean? Explain this more please. But I meant more about how God created us as in our bodies. I think this says it best... Psalm 139:1-16 1 O Lord, You have searched me and known me. 2 You know my sitting down and my rising up; You understand my thought afar off. 3 You comprehend my path and my lying down, And are acquainted with all my ways. 4 For there is not a word on my tongue, But behold, O Lord, You know it altogether. 5 You have hedged me behind and before, And laid Your hand upon me. 6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; It is high, I cannot attain it. 7 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? 8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, 10 Even there Your hand shall lead me, And Your right hand shall hold me. 11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,” Even the night shall be light about me; 12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You, But the night shines as the day; The darkness and the light are both alike to You. 13 For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb. 14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them. This says God knows everything about us. He knows our thoughts and what will do before it even takes place. It also says God knew what we would look like before we were made in the womb by Him. It also clarifies that God is a Spirit too. Thoughts? Additions? I mean we cannot be like God as in we can never be all-powerful and all-knowing like Him. But I agree with what you said Before we existed in time, before we were born into this world God knew us, Ephesians 1:4-5 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Romans 8:28-30 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. And one that more goes along with verse 13 in the passage you quoted in Psalm and how he formed us in the womb, Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. And yes, God knows our thoughts and our hearts, and what we will do before we do it, Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord pondereth the hearts. 1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Psalm 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Anything else to add?
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 23, 2018 5:52:32 GMT
What do you mean? Explain this more please. But I meant more about how God created us as in our bodies. I think this says it best... Psalm 139:1-16 1 O Lord, You have searched me and known me. 2 You know my sitting down and my rising up; You understand my thought afar off. 3 You comprehend my path and my lying down, And are acquainted with all my ways. 4 For there is not a word on my tongue, But behold, O Lord, You know it altogether. 5 You have hedged me behind and before, And laid Your hand upon me. 6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; It is high, I cannot attain it. 7 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? 8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, 10 Even there Your hand shall lead me, And Your right hand shall hold me. 11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,” Even the night shall be light about me; 12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You, But the night shines as the day; The darkness and the light are both alike to You. 13 For You formed my inward parts; You covered me in my mother’s womb. 14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well. 15 My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them. This says God knows everything about us. He knows our thoughts and what will do before it even takes place. It also says God knew what we would look like before we were made in the womb by Him. It also clarifies that God is a Spirit too. Thoughts? Additions? I mean we cannot be like God as in we can never be all-powerful and all-knowing like Him. But I agree with what you said Before we existed in time, before we were born into this world God knew us, Ephesians 1:4-5 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Romans 8:28-30 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. And one that more goes along with verse 13 in the passage you quoted in Psalm and how he formed us in the womb, Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. And yes, God knows our thoughts and our hearts, and what we will do before we do it, Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord pondereth the hearts. 1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Psalm 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Anything else to add? Nope, nothing to add. It is all good. I have a good next topic now too. Some guy I was talking bible with this month said that God is always changing. He also made a silly answer saying God was Spirit before NT times but gave up Spirit form to forever be human now. And I'm like I had no clue humans could disappear and reapper to people as God did after resurrection. I think he said next was that maybe Jesus was like a human alien then. Obviously, he's inconsistent in his beliefs and knows nothing. So can we discuss God's nature/form/body? A good verse for that guy is this one below. He needs to realize that God never changed from OT to NT and was always the same. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8
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Post by DKTrav88 on Nov 27, 2018 2:13:39 GMT
I mean we cannot be like God as in we can never be all-powerful and all-knowing like Him. But I agree with what you said Before we existed in time, before we were born into this world God knew us, Ephesians 1:4-5 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Romans 8:28-30 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. And one that more goes along with verse 13 in the passage you quoted in Psalm and how he formed us in the womb, Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. And yes, God knows our thoughts and our hearts, and what we will do before we do it, Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the Lord pondereth the hearts. 1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Psalm 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Anything else to add? Nope, nothing to add. It is all good. I have a good next topic now too. Some guy I was talking bible with this month said that God is always changing. He also made a silly answer saying God was Spirit before NT times but gave up Spirit form to forever be human now. And I'm like I had no clue humans could disappear and reapper to people as God did after resurrection. I think he said next was that maybe Jesus was like a human alien then. Obviously, he's inconsistent in his beliefs and knows nothing. So can we discuss God's nature/form/body? A good verse for that guy is this one below. He needs to realize that God never changed from OT to NT and was always the same. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8 The guy you spoke with is sorely mistaken. God has always been the same. He never changes and there's nothing in the Bible that would support the notion that God is always changing. God says Himself that He is NEVER changing and that He will ALWAYS do what He says He will do, Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? 1 Samuel 15:28-29 28 And Samuel said unto him, The Lord hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou. 29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. Isaiah 46:9-11 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. Ezekiel 24:14 I the Lord have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord God. James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. And also, since we know God is eternal, not restricted by the constraints of time, and that change takes place within the constraints of time, we can conclude that it is impossible for God to change. There is also the fact that normally when people change that it is because they have come across new information, but, this cannot be the case ever with God as He is omniscient(all-knowing), so there would never be any new information for Him to come across. He sees all, knows all, and is ever-present. Anything to add? Comments?
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Post by Elizabeth on Nov 29, 2018 19:16:47 GMT
Nope, nothing to add. It is all good. I have a good next topic now too. Some guy I was talking bible with this month said that God is always changing. He also made a silly answer saying God was Spirit before NT times but gave up Spirit form to forever be human now. And I'm like I had no clue humans could disappear and reapper to people as God did after resurrection. I think he said next was that maybe Jesus was like a human alien then. Obviously, he's inconsistent in his beliefs and knows nothing. So can we discuss God's nature/form/body? A good verse for that guy is this one below. He needs to realize that God never changed from OT to NT and was always the same. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8 The guy you spoke with is sorely mistaken. God has always been the same. He never changes and there's nothing in the Bible that would support the notion that God is always changing. God says Himself that He is NEVER changing and that He will ALWAYS do what He says He will do, Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? 1 Samuel 15:28-29 28 And Samuel said unto him, The Lord hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou. 29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. Isaiah 46:9-11 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. Ezekiel 24:14 I the Lord have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord God. James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. And also, since we know God is eternal, not restricted by the constraints of time, and that change takes place within the constraints of time, we can conclude that it is impossible for God to change. There is also the fact that normally when people change that it is because they have come across new information, but, this cannot be the case ever with God as He is omniscient(all-knowing), so there would never be any new information for Him to come across. He sees all, knows all, and is ever-present. Anything to add? Comments? Nope, nothing to add. It's perfect The other thing he was saying to support his claim that God changed is that it was just old covenant and God suddenly had a brand new idea and made a new covenant randomly. And I said that's incorrect. God planned both covenants before the world began so it wasn't random change in God. Plus both covenants work together. Old one flowed into new one for the second part of God's plan to take its course. Comments? Anything to add?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Nov 30, 2018 1:21:09 GMT
The guy you spoke with is sorely mistaken. God has always been the same. He never changes and there's nothing in the Bible that would support the notion that God is always changing. God says Himself that He is NEVER changing and that He will ALWAYS do what He says He will do, Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? 1 Samuel 15:28-29 28 And Samuel said unto him, The Lord hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou. 29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. Isaiah 46:9-11 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. Ezekiel 24:14 I the Lord have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord God. James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. And also, since we know God is eternal, not restricted by the constraints of time, and that change takes place within the constraints of time, we can conclude that it is impossible for God to change. There is also the fact that normally when people change that it is because they have come across new information, but, this cannot be the case ever with God as He is omniscient(all-knowing), so there would never be any new information for Him to come across. He sees all, knows all, and is ever-present. Anything to add? Comments? Nope, nothing to add. It's perfect The other thing he was saying to support his claim that God changed is that it was just old covenant and God suddenly had a brand new idea and made a new covenant randomly. And I said that's incorrect. God planned both covenants before the world began so it wasn't random change in God. Plus both covenants work together. Old one flowed into new one for the second part of God's plan to take its course. Comments? Anything to add? He is incorrect. God is omniscient and omnipresent, He knows all and He is not confined within time, so He doesn't come up with new ideas; it doesn't make sense to say God can come up with new ideas if He already knows everything. The new covenant is God's plan for us all before He created anything. The Bible doesn't support the notion of a change in God or His plan, it says the opposite many times as the verses I quoted previously show us. If God said He is going to do something, He is going to do it. If He didn't or doesn't do it, then He would be a liar, but we know that God cannot lie, Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; ^This only confirms that and the fact that God's plan was set for us before the world began. Did you want to get into the two covenants as our next topic?
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 3, 2018 2:33:46 GMT
Nope, nothing to add. It's perfect The other thing he was saying to support his claim that God changed is that it was just old covenant and God suddenly had a brand new idea and made a new covenant randomly. And I said that's incorrect. God planned both covenants before the world began so it wasn't random change in God. Plus both covenants work together. Old one flowed into new one for the second part of God's plan to take its course. Comments? Anything to add? He is incorrect. God is omniscient and omnipresent, He knows all and He is not confined within time, so He doesn't come up with new ideas; it doesn't make sense to say God can come up with new ideas if He already knows everything. The new covenant is God's plan for us all before He created anything. The Bible doesn't support the notion of a change in God or His plan, it says the opposite many times as the verses I quoted previously show us. If God said He is going to do something, He is going to do it. If He didn't or doesn't do it, then He would be a liar, but we know that God cannot lie, Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; ^This only confirms that and the fact that God's plan was set for us before the world began. Did you want to get into the two covenants as our next topic? Sure. Let's start with the old covenant? And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. Exodus 34:28 So the ten commandments play a huge role in the covenant that God made with people. God gave the law and it is to be fulfilled in the old and new covenant. So how do the covenants differ? If they both have the ten commandments then something else is a bit different or part one of old covenant leads into part two of new covenant then. What do you have to say to start this topic?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Dec 6, 2018 3:48:10 GMT
He is incorrect. God is omniscient and omnipresent, He knows all and He is not confined within time, so He doesn't come up with new ideas; it doesn't make sense to say God can come up with new ideas if He already knows everything. The new covenant is God's plan for us all before He created anything. The Bible doesn't support the notion of a change in God or His plan, it says the opposite many times as the verses I quoted previously show us. If God said He is going to do something, He is going to do it. If He didn't or doesn't do it, then He would be a liar, but we know that God cannot lie, Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; ^This only confirms that and the fact that God's plan was set for us before the world began. Did you want to get into the two covenants as our next topic? Sure. Let's start with the old covenant? And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. Exodus 34:28 So the ten commandments play a huge role in the covenant that God made with people. God gave the law and it is to be fulfilled in the old and new covenant. So how do the covenants differ? If they both have the ten commandments then something else is a bit different or part one of old covenant leads into part two of new covenant then. What do you have to say to start this topic? I'll start of by pointing out that the old covenant is different in that it was not made with us, it was made with the Israelites when they came out of Egypt. They were required by God to keep the law and in return He would protect and bless them, Exodus 19:4-6 4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. They were required to make sacrifices, Exodus 20:24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee. They were commanded to make a tabernacle, Exodus 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it. And not only were they commanded to keep the 10 commandments, but they were also commanded to keep a number of other commandments which I believe is 118 in total from Exodus alone. More were added later in Leviticus and in Deuteronomy which in total was over 600 if I am not mistaken. Today, we are not under all of these commandments, as that covenant was done away with in Christ, Hebrews 8:6-13 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. And Christ is the high priest and testator of this new covenant... Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Hebrews 9:15-17 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. ...who is now before God in heaven just as the high priests of the old covenant were the only ones allowed in the most holy place of the tabernacle,... Hebrews 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: ....as our advocate with Him being the payment, giving Himself for our sins... 1 John 2:1-3 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. ...because the sacrifices of bulls and goats could never take away sins, but only Christ's self-sacrifice could, Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 10:3-12 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; I'm sure you have more to add
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 10, 2018 4:48:58 GMT
Sure. Let's start with the old covenant? And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. Exodus 34:28 So the ten commandments play a huge role in the covenant that God made with people. God gave the law and it is to be fulfilled in the old and new covenant. So how do the covenants differ? If they both have the ten commandments then something else is a bit different or part one of old covenant leads into part two of new covenant then. What do you have to say to start this topic? I'll start of by pointing out that the old covenant is different in that it was not made with us, it was made with the Israelites when they came out of Egypt. They were required by God to keep the law and in return He would protect and bless them, Exodus 19:4-6 4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. They were required to make sacrifices, Exodus 20:24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee. They were commanded to make a tabernacle, Exodus 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it. And not only were they commanded to keep the 10 commandments, but they were also commanded to keep a number of other commandments which I believe is 118 in total from Exodus alone. More were added later in Leviticus and in Deuteronomy which in total was over 600 if I am not mistaken. Today, we are not under all of these commandments, as that covenant was done away with in Christ, Hebrews 8:6-13 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. And Christ is the high priest and testator of this new covenant... Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Hebrews 9:15-17 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. ...who is now before God in heaven just as the high priests of the old covenant were the only ones allowed in the most holy place of the tabernacle,... Hebrews 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: ....as our advocate with Him being the payment, giving Himself for our sins... 1 John 2:1-3 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. ...because the sacrifices of bulls and goats could never take away sins, but only Christ's self-sacrifice could, Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 10:3-12 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; I'm sure you have more to add The 10 commandments are the main laws in both covenants and ones that always remain though. The extra laws in OT were more of how what to do about animal sacrifices, priesthood, etc which were only temporary until they were replaced with communion after Christ's blood. They were pointing towards the better covenant basically so the extra's weren't the main laws (10 commandments) but a place holder for the communion after the shedding of Christ's blood. Hebrews 9 explains more of how 1st covenant was there to lead to the new and everlasting covenant in Christ. Or you disagree? And do you know why the Israelites were chosen in the first place? As we read today...that God works with the poor not the rich...so it was something along those lines. Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? James 2:5
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Post by DKTrav88 on Dec 14, 2018 1:56:19 GMT
I'll start of by pointing out that the old covenant is different in that it was not made with us, it was made with the Israelites when they came out of Egypt. They were required by God to keep the law and in return He would protect and bless them, Exodus 19:4-6 4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. They were required to make sacrifices, Exodus 20:24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee. They were commanded to make a tabernacle, Exodus 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it. And not only were they commanded to keep the 10 commandments, but they were also commanded to keep a number of other commandments which I believe is 118 in total from Exodus alone. More were added later in Leviticus and in Deuteronomy which in total was over 600 if I am not mistaken. Today, we are not under all of these commandments, as that covenant was done away with in Christ, Hebrews 8:6-13 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. And Christ is the high priest and testator of this new covenant... Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Hebrews 9:15-17 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. ...who is now before God in heaven just as the high priests of the old covenant were the only ones allowed in the most holy place of the tabernacle,... Hebrews 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: ....as our advocate with Him being the payment, giving Himself for our sins... 1 John 2:1-3 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. ...because the sacrifices of bulls and goats could never take away sins, but only Christ's self-sacrifice could, Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 10:3-12 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; I'm sure you have more to add The 10 commandments are the main laws in both covenants and ones that always remain though. The extra laws in OT were more of how what to do about animal sacrifices, priesthood, etc which were only temporary until they were replaced with communion after Christ's blood. They were pointing towards the better covenant basically so the extra's weren't the main laws (10 commandments) but a place holder for the communion after the shedding of Christ's blood. Hebrews 9 explains more of how 1st covenant was there to lead to the new and everlasting covenant in Christ. Or you disagree? And do you know why the Israelites were chosen in the first place? As we read today...that God works with the poor not the rich...so it was something along those lines. Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? James 2:5 I agree There's also this passage... Deuteronomy 7:7-9 7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: 8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations; ...which goes along with James 2:5 There's these verses as well, Joshua 22:5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the Lord charged you, to love the Lord your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul. John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. Basically, the Israelites were chosen because God knew they would love Him and keep His commandments and in return God would keep the promise He made to Abraham and his seed... Genesis 17:8-10 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. ...his seed now being any and all who are in Christ... Romans 2:28-29 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Galatians 3:28-29 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. ...Christ bringing salvation to the world through His blood, Ephesians 2:11-17 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. Anything to add?
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Post by Elizabeth on Dec 14, 2018 7:04:31 GMT
The 10 commandments are the main laws in both covenants and ones that always remain though. The extra laws in OT were more of how what to do about animal sacrifices, priesthood, etc which were only temporary until they were replaced with communion after Christ's blood. They were pointing towards the better covenant basically so the extra's weren't the main laws (10 commandments) but a place holder for the communion after the shedding of Christ's blood. Hebrews 9 explains more of how 1st covenant was there to lead to the new and everlasting covenant in Christ. Or you disagree? And do you know why the Israelites were chosen in the first place? As we read today...that God works with the poor not the rich...so it was something along those lines. Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? James 2:5 I agree There's also this passage... Deuteronomy 7:7-9 7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: 8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations; ...which goes along with James 2:5 There's these verses as well, Joshua 22:5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the Lord charged you, to love the Lord your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul. John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. Basically, the Israelites were chosen because God knew they would love Him and keep His commandments and in return God would keep the promise He made to Abraham and his seed... Genesis 17:8-10 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. ...his seed now being any and all who are in Christ... Romans 2:28-29 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Galatians 3:28-29 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. ...Christ bringing salvation to the world through His blood, Ephesians 2:11-17 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. Anything to add? All seems well. Next would like to focus on the priesthood started in OT. The first priest mentioned in the bible is Melchizedek who was also the king of Salem. The word "salem" means peace so in a way he translates as the king of peace. This is important for the coming of the new covenant. The first man, Adam, brought death and the last Adam, Jesus, brought life. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:45 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 1 Corinthians 15:47 And Melchizedek was the first priest and Jesus was the last priest. Kind of like Adam and Jesus thing too. Hebrews 7:1-2 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,”. He, like Adam, was symbolizing the One to come. Adam brought death while Jesus brought life. Melchizedek (and other priests) brought the remission of sins by continuous sacrifices and Jesus the last priest brought the last sacrifice of Himself. Hence, why Jesus is a priest forever and no other priests are needed unless they do not accept the sacrifice of Christ. Hebrews 7:23-24 23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. These verses are clear that all the human priests before Christ died and had to be replaced. But Jesus, God, has no end so He is a priest forever. Sadly, people still keep anointing priests and reject the endless priest, Jesus. Human priests served as mediators between people and God and offered sacrifices for everyone in OT. But with Jesus, our last and endless priest, He's the only mediator for us now. Yet, others still look to other people to be a mediator for them sadly. Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. The first priesthood was temporarily because wasn't perfect. It needed Jesus to step up to be the Priest forever, because He is perfect. Hebrews 7:26-28 26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever. Which is why Jesus is the last High Priest and only High Priest for New Covenant Christians. I think getting new priests today is an insult to God. I absolutely hate that people wish to replace Him with a human priest with weaknesses. Your thoughts? Additions?
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Post by DKTrav88 on Dec 20, 2018 2:35:26 GMT
I agree There's also this passage... Deuteronomy 7:7-9 7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: 8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations; ...which goes along with James 2:5 There's these verses as well, Joshua 22:5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the Lord charged you, to love the Lord your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul. John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. Basically, the Israelites were chosen because God knew they would love Him and keep His commandments and in return God would keep the promise He made to Abraham and his seed... Genesis 17:8-10 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. 9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. 10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. ...his seed now being any and all who are in Christ... Romans 2:28-29 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Galatians 3:28-29 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. ...Christ bringing salvation to the world through His blood, Ephesians 2:11-17 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. Anything to add? All seems well. Next would like to focus on the priesthood started in OT. The first priest mentioned in the bible is Melchizedek who was also the king of Salem. The word "salem" means peace so in a way he translates as the king of peace. This is important for the coming of the new covenant. The first man, Adam, brought death and the last Adam, Jesus, brought life. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:45 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 1 Corinthians 15:47 And Melchizedek was the first priest and Jesus was the last priest. Kind of like Adam and Jesus thing too. Hebrews 7:1-2 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,”. He, like Adam, was symbolizing the One to come. Adam brought death while Jesus brought life. Melchizedek (and other priests) brought the remission of sins by continuous sacrifices and Jesus the last priest brought the last sacrifice of Himself. Hence, why Jesus is a priest forever and no other priests are needed unless they do not accept the sacrifice of Christ. Hebrews 7:23-24 23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. These verses are clear that all the human priests before Christ died and had to be replaced. But Jesus, God, has no end so He is a priest forever. Sadly, people still keep anointing priests and reject the endless priest, Jesus. Human priests served as mediators between people and God and offered sacrifices for everyone in OT. But with Jesus, our last and endless priest, He's the only mediator for us now. Yet, others still look to other people to be a mediator for them sadly. Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. The first priesthood was temporarily because wasn't perfect. It needed Jesus to step up to be the Priest forever, because He is perfect. Hebrews 7:26-28 26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever. Which is why Jesus is the last High Priest and only High Priest for New Covenant Christians. I think getting new priests today is an insult to God. I absolutely hate that people wish to replace Him with a human priest with weaknesses. Your thoughts? Additions? I agree with all that you said Salem does mean peace as scripture says, and it is supposed that the city Salem in the time of Abraham is today's Jerusalem which in Hebrew means "City of Peace". Absolutely, Melchizedek is symbolic of Christ as a priest bringing the remission of sins along with other priests of the OT. A lot of the ordinances of the OT set forth by God work as symbolism for the new covenant to come. It is a shame that the Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Lutherans, etc. don't understand Hebrews for exactly what it says; they demonstrate this by ordaining priests to this day. Also, many people today like to think that Melchizedek was actually Jesus, but this is not true; scripture gives no indication of it being so. Moreover, for some odd reason people also try to establish a link between God appearing before Abraham in Genesis 18 and Abraham meeting Melchizedek to justify their odd belief of Melchizedek being Jesus shrug I don't understand how this can be done, there is no relation between Abraham(Abram at the time) meeting Melchizedek in Salem and God appearing before Abraham 4 chapters later in scripture, therefore Melchizedek cannot be Jesus. And yes, priests before Christ would die and had to be replaced constantly, but with Christ, who is eternal, as high priest and the mediator/intercessor of the new covenant, no replacement is needed and no continuous sacrifices are needed as Christ died once for the sins of the whole world. Therefore there is no absolutely no need to ordain new priests as the Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Lutherans, Anglicans, etc. do. These denominations take away what God has given to us as believers, that is the royal priesthood by faith in Christ, making it a hierarchy of sorts that would otherwise put those of the faith less than saved because the only thing less than a child of God, the royal priesthood, is a non-believer, which truly is an insult not only to believers, but to God Himself. It is showing open rebellion and/or ignorance to what God has given and done for us and for the whole world. Part of the issue seems to come from what the word πρεσβυτέρους(presbyterous) is interpreted as, but this word only means elder, never priest. Even in the OT there is a distinct difference between elders and priests, so it shouldn't be confused at all. The other part of the issue is the misinterpretation of who is being talked about in 1 Peter 2:5-9, but there should be no issue there either, as 1 Peter 1 starts off, 1 Peter 1:1-2 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Strangers are also Gentiles in the Bible. There's this passage to prove it so, Ephesians 2:11-22 11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. And we know that children of God are being referred to as strangers in 1 Peter because it says " Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ". So it isn't referring to unsaved people. Thoughts?
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