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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 2, 2018 4:33:04 GMT
Apostles John and Peter preached Jesus as the stone to all people in the below verses. Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Only the stone saves which is also the chief cornerstone.
And these apostles encountered threats and so on from the people. Some apostles fell away later and some held on strong. Are you brave enough to spread Jesus as the stone who provides salvation no matter what?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2018 14:22:47 GMT
correct ! it was pretty evident eventually in the discussion that it was going no where , so a rational person like u said , would have put brakes way earlier before it got ugly ... i gotta remove the bad aura of posts now . There are many ppl on hold, considering whether to engage in a discussion or not , so if they notice such a flux they would be deterred , plus i like to keep a clean record of discussions here anyways . One more question ., why are u so interested in Christianity debates .. considering u are an atheist .. like iam free of religion as well . so i really dont bother even reading and going into these sections .. but as a moderator i am forced to now .. but i understand not everyone thinks like me or have the same mindset .. so may i know your reason ? is it like u enjoy putting them down or something else .. It's more about persuading them that their beliefs may be wrong. Sowing the seeds of doubt if you like. I know that they are wrong and I want them to know that they are wrong. (Yes, I understand that they think exactly the same thing. The problem is that they have typically been indoctrinated into their beliefs and I am the opposite - I broke away from such indoctrination. Also they insist that blind faith is a virtue but they never apply it to any other area of their life). I think that it is a duty we all have to help our fellow man to overcome delusion. Some may argue that we should just leave them alone as people believing illogical things does no great harm. If they want to engage in wishful thinking about an afterlife and it gives them comfort then let them. Unfortunately it does do harm because religions are constantly trying to meddle in worldly affairs. I could make a long list of the harms to society from religion. Therefore, in my view, atheists need to push back. If we remain passive then religions will eventually get their way. Watch "A Handmaid's Tale" if you want a cautionary story on what happens if we remain apathetic to what is happening.
Having said all that, I know that it is very difficult to reason people out of a belief that they haven't reasoned themselves into. We can but try though, right?
saying that they never apply virtue to any other area of their life is being judgmental .. i've seen ppl become worse or become even more pious with religion .. so let s not make it about religious folks , rather religion which is the problem and we gotta live in this world with everyone so thats the way to go on about it to create harmony .. it s the religion not religious ppl . religious folks here have enough resources in Arktos that shed the light into same thing u are talking about ,, the thing is members here already have heard what u are saying , so the problem is not in advocating your thoughts but a constant persuading that eventually gets personal and reaps no results . i agree with the notion that non religious folks need to push back so it doesnt become all delusional scent in this community and i really love when members like u join this community to get rid of the delusional air ... but the point still remains the same when the discussion reaches a point that it reaps no learning outcomes or having mutual respect for each other or becoming a war of egos rather than the context , it wise to walk out and agree to disagree .. having said that .. Dk is not your best bet .. The funny thing about religion is , they cant even agree with themselves .. like Christianity for example , members have different perspectives and i see them going nuts against each other .. There was only a one ex member here , who i considered worthy for such a discussion ( u can see the thread in philosophy board ) even though he was a catholic ..we respectfully shed light in different perspectives , got to discover new things . had the mind to listen to each other regardless of our preconception ... experienced joy in asking questions rather than justifying answers ,, in the end we both walked out learning ton of new stuff as we brought in lot of philosopher's perspectives in our discussion and still held on to our respective beliefs , so the point i am trying to highlight is to reap something out of a discussion rather than persuading them to over turn what they believe .. there will always be religious folks in this world no matter what ,,, as thats how humans are programmed since birth ,, so it s very hard for human specie to break out of it ... some do ,, others refute by simply coming up with a thought that its the so called devil.
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 9, 2018 17:40:33 GMT
correct ! it was pretty evident eventually in the discussion that it was going no where , so a rational person like u said , would have put brakes way earlier before it got ugly ... i gotta remove the bad aura of posts now . There are many ppl on hold, considering whether to engage in a discussion or not , so if they notice such a flux they would be deterred , plus i like to keep a clean record of discussions here anyways . One more question ., why are u so interested in Christianity debates .. considering u are an atheist .. like iam free of religion as well . so i really dont bother even reading and going into these sections .. but as a moderator i am forced to now .. but i understand not everyone thinks like me or have the same mindset .. so may i know your reason ? is it like u enjoy putting them down or something else .. It's more about persuading them that their beliefs may be wrong. Sowing the seeds of doubt if you like. I know that they are wrong and I want them to know that they are wrong. (Yes, I understand that they think exactly the same thing. The problem is that they have typically been indoctrinated into their beliefs and I am the opposite - I broke away from such indoctrination. Also they insist that blind faith is a virtue but they never apply it to any other area of their life). I think that it is a duty we all have to help our fellow man to overcome delusion. Some may argue that we should just leave them alone as people believing illogical things does no great harm. If they want to engage in wishful thinking about an afterlife and it gives them comfort then let them. Unfortunately it does do harm because religions are constantly trying to meddle in worldly affairs. I could make a long list of the harms to society from religion. Therefore, in my view, atheists need to push back. If we remain passive then religions will eventually get their way. Watch "A Handmaid's Tale" if you want a cautionary story on what happens if we remain apathetic to what is happening. Having said all that, I know that it is very difficult to reason people out of a belief that they haven't reasoned themselves into. We can but try though, right?
I like your tactic, honestly and of those who tried before you. But if my God is more real to me than you are or any being...I suggest a different strategy than your current one.
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Post by DKTrav88 on Oct 9, 2018 18:21:38 GMT
It's more about persuading them that their beliefs may be wrong. Sowing the seeds of doubt if you like. I know that they are wrong and I want them to know that they are wrong. (Yes, I understand that they think exactly the same thing. The problem is that they have typically been indoctrinated into their beliefs and I am the opposite - I broke away from such indoctrination. Also they insist that blind faith is a virtue but they never apply it to any other area of their life). I think that it is a duty we all have to help our fellow man to overcome delusion. Some may argue that we should just leave them alone as people believing illogical things does no great harm. If they want to engage in wishful thinking about an afterlife and it gives them comfort then let them. Unfortunately it does do harm because religions are constantly trying to meddle in worldly affairs. I could make a long list of the harms to society from religion. Therefore, in my view, atheists need to push back. If we remain passive then religions will eventually get their way. Watch "A Handmaid's Tale" if you want a cautionary story on what happens if we remain apathetic to what is happening. Having said all that, I know that it is very difficult to reason people out of a belief that they haven't reasoned themselves into. We can but try though, right?
I like your tactic, honestly and of those who tried before you. But if my God is more real to me than you are or any being...I suggest a different tragedy than your current one. Mhmm, the Bible says we won’t be deceived
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 0:51:12 GMT
It's more about persuading them that their beliefs may be wrong. Sowing the seeds of doubt if you like. I know that they are wrong and I want them to know that they are wrong. (Yes, I understand that they think exactly the same thing. The problem is that they have typically been indoctrinated into their beliefs and I am the opposite - I broke away from such indoctrination. Also they insist that blind faith is a virtue but they never apply it to any other area of their life). I think that it is a duty we all have to help our fellow man to overcome delusion. Some may argue that we should just leave them alone as people believing illogical things does no great harm. If they want to engage in wishful thinking about an afterlife and it gives them comfort then let them. Unfortunately it does do harm because religions are constantly trying to meddle in worldly affairs. I could make a long list of the harms to society from religion. Therefore, in my view, atheists need to push back. If we remain passive then religions will eventually get their way. Watch "A Handmaid's Tale" if you want a cautionary story on what happens if we remain apathetic to what is happening. Having said all that, I know that it is very difficult to reason people out of a belief that they haven't reasoned themselves into. We can but try though, right?
I like your tactic, honestly and of those who tried before you. But if my God is more real to me than you are or any being...I suggest a different strategy than your current one. Such as?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 0:59:23 GMT
It's more about persuading them that their beliefs may be wrong. Sowing the seeds of doubt if you like. I know that they are wrong and I want them to know that they are wrong. (Yes, I understand that they think exactly the same thing. The problem is that they have typically been indoctrinated into their beliefs and I am the opposite - I broke away from such indoctrination. Also they insist that blind faith is a virtue but they never apply it to any other area of their life). I think that it is a duty we all have to help our fellow man to overcome delusion. Some may argue that we should just leave them alone as people believing illogical things does no great harm. If they want to engage in wishful thinking about an afterlife and it gives them comfort then let them. Unfortunately it does do harm because religions are constantly trying to meddle in worldly affairs. I could make a long list of the harms to society from religion. Therefore, in my view, atheists need to push back. If we remain passive then religions will eventually get their way. Watch "A Handmaid's Tale" if you want a cautionary story on what happens if we remain apathetic to what is happening.
Having said all that, I know that it is very difficult to reason people out of a belief that they haven't reasoned themselves into. We can but try though, right?
saying that they never apply virtue to any other area of their life is being judgmental .. I'm fairly sure that I haven't made that claim.
But religions would not exist without adherents to those religions. I can't persuade religions to go away, can I?
I'm an eternal optimist that change can be effected one individual at a time.
Or by branding everyone who disagrees with them as automatic liars.
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 10, 2018 1:08:04 GMT
I like your tactic, honestly and of those who tried before you. But if my God is more real to me than you are or any being...I suggest a different strategy than your current one. Such as? The one you said in your first sentence. Shrug
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 1:20:48 GMT
The one you said in your first sentence. In my view that is exactly what I am doing. I'm showing you where your Bible is just plain wrong. I know that upsets many Christians but I don't believe in sugarcoating, not for adults anyway.
A lot of theists have a repressed fear of dying. That is why they engage in these wishful thinking fantasies where death is not really death and they will live forever if only they kowtow to a stern but loving father figure in the sky. I find such thinking to be extremely immature and I am not afraid to point it out. Every living organism on Earth dies. We hairless apes are no different.
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Post by Elizabeth on Oct 10, 2018 1:34:39 GMT
The one you said in your first sentence. In my view that is exactly what I am doing. I'm showing you where your Bible is just plain wrong. I know that upsets many Christians but I don't believe in sugarcoating, not for adults anyway. A lot of theists have a repressed fear of dying. That is why they engage in these wishful thinking fantasies where death is not really death and they will live forever if only they kowtow to a stern but loving father figure in the sky. I find such thinking to be extremely immature and I am not afraid to point it out. Every living organism on Earth dies. We hairless apes are no different.
Maybe it upsets some but I don't know why unless they're not comfortable in their beliefs. People who are offended just have insecurities.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 2:41:24 GMT
saying that they never apply virtue to any other area of their life is being judgmental .. I'm fairly sure that I haven't made that claim.
But religions would not exist without adherents to those religions. I can't persuade religions to go away, can I?
I'm an eternal optimist that change can be effected one individual at a time.
Or by branding everyone who disagrees with them as automatic liars. Yeah, Dk did the branding of calling u a liar. Sigh. You did make such a claim, it's right there in your post. Yeah change by one person is like tiny drops of an ocean but I am merely concerned on etiquette of a conversation here.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 2:42:57 GMT
I'm fairly sure that I haven't made that claim.
But religions would not exist without adherents to those religions. I can't persuade religions to go away, can I?
I'm an eternal optimist that change can be effected one individual at a time.
Or by branding everyone who disagrees with them as automatic liars. Yeah, Dk did the branding of calling u a liar. Sigh. You did make such a claim, it's right there in your post. Yeah change by one person is like tiny drops of an ocean but I am merely concerned on etiquette of a conversation here. What I mean about religion is address the underlying cause religion and not to make it personal, like personal attacks
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 2:57:15 GMT
Yeah, Dk did the branding of calling u a liar. . It's the first step when you create a new religion. You must immediately demonize anyone who doesn't share your beliefs. The Christians do it by labeling all unbelievers as fools and liars. The Muslims do it by calling unbelievers infidels. There's a pattern.
I would be intrigued to know where. Please quote my relevant words. I think there might be some misunderstanding.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 2:58:54 GMT
In my view that is exactly what I am doing. I'm showing you where your Bible is just plain wrong. I know that upsets many Christians but I don't believe in sugarcoating, not for adults anyway. A lot of theists have a repressed fear of dying. That is why they engage in these wishful thinking fantasies where death is not really death and they will live forever if only they kowtow to a stern but loving father figure in the sky. I find such thinking to be extremely immature and I am not afraid to point it out. Every living organism on Earth dies. We hairless apes are no different.
Maybe it upsets some but I don't know why unless they're not comfortable in their beliefs. People who are offended just have insecurities. That's a very healthy attitude. I like your disposition.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 8:13:04 GMT
Yeah, Dk did the branding of calling u a liar. . It's the first step when you create a new religion. You must immediately demonize anyone who doesn't share your beliefs. The Christians do it by labeling all unbelievers as fools and liars. The Muslims do it by calling unbelievers infidels. There's a pattern.
I would be intrigued to know where. Please quote my relevant words. I think there might be some misunderstanding. u wrote the following "Also they insist that blind faith is a virtue but they never apply it to any other area of their life"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 14:37:37 GMT
It's the first step when you create a new religion. You must immediately demonize anyone who doesn't share your beliefs. The Christians do it by labeling all unbelievers as fools and liars. The Muslims do it by calling unbelievers infidels. There's a pattern.
I would be intrigued to know where. Please quote my relevant words. I think there might be some misunderstanding. u wrote the following "Also they insist that blind faith is a virtue but they never apply it to any other area of their life" By that I meant that they don't employ blind faith when they are sick and need a doctor or choose a realtor to buy a house etc.. In other words I am questioning their selectivity in the use of blind faith in one area of their lives but not in others.
I'm unsure how that translates to me saying that religious people do not have any other virtues.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2018 17:00:13 GMT
u wrote the following "Also they insist that blind faith is a virtue but they never apply it to any other area of their life" By that I meant that they don't employ blind faith when they are sick and need a doctor or choose a realtor to buy a house etc.. In other words I am questioning their selectivity in the use of blind faith in one area of their lives but not in others.
I'm unsure how that translates to me saying that religious people do not have any other virtues. by the looks of it seemed like that, anyways u didn't mean it that way, so no point extracting this further
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