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Post by fschmidt on Jun 29, 2018 7:36:55 GMT
I want a moral non-racist religion. What are my options? I see only traditional Anabaptism and Islam. Islam seems like a better fit for me as an Old Testament follower. By converting, I would finally be part of a religious community. So should I convert?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 9:59:06 GMT
Another Ezra follower
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Post by adrasteia on Jun 29, 2018 10:00:21 GMT
Islam is a non-racist religion, but I doubt it's completely moral. A verse that kept me from investigate Islam in depth: "And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise." Surah An-Nisa [4:24] The meaning of "Those your right hand possess" is "Those you acquire through war". Yup, I know what you mean. There are some crazy verses like that. Did you look into more religions as well? I try to to be able to understand more of what others believe but haven't gotten too far. Yeah, me too. I investigated Christianity twice, and Judaism once. I have read the Torah halfway and I had to stop, I was so bored with it to be honest. Christianity was way more interesting to read about, but there are never ending teachings, interpretations, denominations in it. So I ended up burning my mind and kept being an agnostic.
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 29, 2018 10:10:46 GMT
Yup, I know what you mean. There are some crazy verses like that. Did you look into more religions as well? I try to to be able to understand more of what others believe but haven't gotten too far. Yeah, me too. I investigated Christianity twice, and Judaism once. I have read the Torah halfway and I had to stop, I was so bored with it to be honest. Christianity was way more interesting to read about, but there are never ending teachings, interpretations, denominations in it. So I ended up burning my mind and kept being an agnostic. It's cool we have another agnostic here. But also with Chrsitianity I'd suggest just go with the interpretation you get when you read it yourself. Just make sure the interpretation fits in all the other times that same verse gets repeated elsewhere. So that way you keep the interpretation consistent throughout the bible and it'll always make sense with that same meaning and if no other verses conflict that meaning. But just my suggestion in case you ever give it a 3rd try. Shrug
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Post by adrasteia on Jun 29, 2018 10:26:05 GMT
Yeah, me too. I investigated Christianity twice, and Judaism once. I have read the Torah halfway and I had to stop, I was so bored with it to be honest. Christianity was way more interesting to read about, but there are never ending teachings, interpretations, denominations in it. So I ended up burning my mind and kept being an agnostic. It's cool we have another agnostic here. But also with Chrsitianity I'd suggest just go with the interpretation you get when you read it yourself. Just make sure the interpretation fits in all the other times that same verse gets repeated elsewhere. So that way you keep the interpretation consistent throughout the bible and it'll always make sense with that same meaning and if no other verses conflict that meaning. But just my suggestion in case you ever give it a 3rd try. I guess that's what we should do when exploring any religion. That's a good suggestion. I lost my enthusiasm in reading about Semitic religions though. Due to some basic existential questions that never was explained fairly.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jun 29, 2018 11:25:17 GMT
Yup, I know what you mean. There are some crazy verses like that. Did you look into more religions as well? I try to to be able to understand more of what others believe but haven't gotten too far. Yeah, me too. I investigated Christianity twice, and Judaism once. I have read the Torah halfway and I had to stop, I was so bored with it to be honest. Christianity was way more interesting to read about, but there are never ending teachings, interpretations, denominations in it. So I ended up burning my mind and kept being an agnostic. has the morality of Islam affected Turkey too much?
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Post by adrasteia on Jun 29, 2018 11:49:01 GMT
Yeah, me too. I investigated Christianity twice, and Judaism once. I have read the Torah halfway and I had to stop, I was so bored with it to be honest. Christianity was way more interesting to read about, but there are never ending teachings, interpretations, denominations in it. So I ended up burning my mind and kept being an agnostic. has the morality of Islam affected Turkey too much? It didn't really affect Turkey since it's a secular state, but the people in it. Like many believers worldwide, Muslims in Turkey are afraid of being punished by God so they try to refrain from evil actions and do good deeds to be rewarded in afterlife. But of course nobody gets odalisques.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 17:13:48 GMT
Fuck. So many pages to read. Elizabeth If I wouldn't know it's from Quran, I would assume it's from the Bible. adrasteia Torah is a part of Christianity too. Διαμονδ Do you really think the wars with the Ottoman Empire carried by other European powers were religious wars? And then the flood of Christians "discussing" their issues appeared in the thread. I skipped to the 5th page to see if it ended. It did not. Then I went to the last page, still continues. So, adrasteia , if you will ever consider Christianity again, look on the Christians and ask yourself if you want to be a part of their joyful community. Constant fights and proving who has it bigger. I can easily tell, that if Jesus would come to Earth right now to see what's going on and would have to die on cross again to save the world, he'd rather say "fuck off". Regarding the original question by fschmidt - if you cannot make such decision by yourself, then whom you expect to do that for you? If you think Muslims are right and everybody else is wrong then that would be a good idea. If you don't then what's the point?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 17:40:40 GMT
I can easily tell, that if Jesus would come to Earth right now to see what's going on and would have to die on cross again to save the world, he'd rather say "fuck off". The best message I've ever read here! Post Mortum Scriptum: By the way, a situation like this - a disgusted situation with many religions - was take place before Christ. Some of those info we can reach from the 'Scroll of Dead Sea'. So... waiting for Christ soon.
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Post by Διαμονδ on Jun 29, 2018 17:40:48 GMT
@unknown There were different cases .. Jerusalem was under the rule of the Ottomans, the Balkans and so on. I hope you understand the horror of Ottoman oppression for Christians?! Shrug
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 17:45:36 GMT
<abbr> ΔιαμονδCan you give me an example of such oppression that would be unique to the Ottoman Empire and not present in Christian part of Europe? </abbr>
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Post by adrasteia on Jun 29, 2018 17:46:27 GMT
Fuck. So many pages to read. Elizabeth If I wouldn't know it's from Quran, I would assume it's from the Bible. adrasteia Torah is a part of Christianity too. Διαμονδ Do you really think the wars with the Ottoman Empire carried by other European powers were religious wars? And then the flood of Christians "discussing" their issues appeared in the thread. I skipped to the 5th page to see if it ended. It did not. Then I went to the last page, still continues. So, adrasteia , if you will ever consider Christianity again, look on the Christians and ask yourself if you want to be a part of their joyful community. Constant fights and proving who has it bigger. I can easily tell, that if Jesus would come to Earth right now to see what's going on and would have to die on cross again to save the world, he'd rather say "fuck off". Regarding the original question by fschmidt - if you cannot make such decision by yourself, then whom you expect to do that for you? If you think Muslims are right and everybody else is wrong then that would be a good idea. If you don't then what's the point? I was referring to Judaism. (And Old Testament part of the Bible was boring to read about) And no, I don't consider Semitic religions anymore, as I said in my next post. I agree with you about the rest.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 18:22:30 GMT
The thread temporarily closed, will be back in few minutes.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 18:55:46 GMT
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Post by joustos on Jun 29, 2018 19:23:25 GMT
I want a moral non-racist religion. What are my options? I see only traditional Anabaptism and Islam. Islam seems like a better fit for me as an Old Testament follower. By converting, I would finally be part of a religious community. So should I convert? Since you present yourself as an Ashkenazi Jew, I am led to think that, for you, Judaism is racist, so that you are looking to convert to a non-racist religion though today there are many Christian sects. Certainly Islam is "racist", as it aims at the destruction of people of different faiths; Judaism is racist in another sense: It is a "closed society" (as Henri Bergson well understood. whereas Catholicism was, before the schism, an "open society" which admits of Jews and Gentiles, as St. Paul put it). Catholicism is "open Judaism", even though today here are deep differences between Judaism (or its secular variant, Zionism) and the many Christian sects. Anyway, your mind is obviously wandering among Systems of Faith, while you have the opportunity to seek what is true in these systems. Seekers of truth are called philosophers, not converters to a new faith.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 19:35:39 GMT
joustos 1. It doesn't. 2. Even if it would, it's not racism.
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