|
Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 24, 2018 9:40:16 GMT
The prevailing view in the most developed countries of the West is that the figures of the Reformation, the Protestant leaders Calvin and Luther, are heroes who defied the dark Catholics. Today, any schoolboy will talk about the atrocities of the Catholic Inquisition. It's true, Catholics burned heretics and witches at the stake. Yes, only Protestants burned them in dozens of times more, but for some reason they are silent about it. In 1540-1564 Calvin, expelling Catholics from Geneva, became the de facto dictator of the city. This figure said that people should be kept in poverty, otherwise it will cease to be submissive to the will of God. You could not sing secular songs, dance, you can eat, and even more so, you can walk in light suits. Doubts in the Christian truth, as Calvin interpreted it, were punishable by burning at the stake. But the fires of the Inquisition seemed to Calvin too mild punishment: the heretic died very quickly. It is with him in fashion includes a new way of execution - burning disagreeable on raw firewood. So they executed the scientist Miguel Servet. Already in the nineteenth century, Friedrich Engels wrote: "Protestants overpopulated Catholics in pursuit of free study of nature. Calvin burned Servetus, when he came close to opening the blood circulation, and at the same time made him fry alive for two hours; the Inquisition, at least, was content with the fact that it was simply the burning of Giordano Bruno. " Calvin overturned Martin Luther who publicly burned in the courtyard of the University of Wittenberg a papal bull about his excommunication from the church. The bonfires burned behind the bull, before which the horrors of the Inquisition faded. Luther was literally possessed by the devil: he saw his intrigues everywhere. In his writings describes how he was constantly visited by hordes of demons, then the lord of darkness sent flies on him. One day, Luther was so carried away by the theological dispute with the devil, which he launched into that inkwell. In addition to the devil, the main enemies of mankind Luther believed Jews and reason and taught: "He who wants to be a Christian, must tear his eyes out of his mind!". "This fool wants to turn all science astronomy; but Scripture tells us that Jesus ordered the Sun to stand, not the Earth, "the reformer was indignant with the teachings of Copernicus and came to the conclusion that" the mind is the greatest enemy of faith. " What to do? Luther finds the way out: "The mind must be deceived, blinded and destroyed." The Führer's morals are natural! In addition to the devil, Luther considered Jews and reason to be the main enemies of mankind. First, Luther began to follow the Jews, ... the methods of struggle were not new either: "First you need to set fire to their synagogues or schools and bury everything that does not burn in the mud so that no one else sees any stone or ash left from them . This must be done to the glory of our Lord and the whole Christian world, "Luther preached. "Secondly, I advise you to destroy and equalize their homes. For in them they pursue the same goals as in the synagogues. " As for the witches, Luther's attitude was unequivocal. The enchantress Luther called "evil fucking whores" and hated it to the depths of his soul. "No compassion - they must be immediately put to death. I would burn them all myself willingly, "exclaimed the Father of the Reformation. Luther constantly insisted on identifying witches and burning them alive. "Wizards and witches," he wrote in 1522, "are evil devilish offspring, they steal milk, bring on bad weather, inflict damage upon people, take away the power in their feet, torture children in cradles, force people to love and coit, and not to have a number intrigues of the devil. " It is not surprising that in witch trials in Germany, men, women and children were condemned to death much more than in any other country. After the death of Luther in the Protestant regions of Germany, witch-hunters were mad even more than in the lands that remained Catholic. Historian Johann Scherr wrote: "Every city, every place, every prelacy, every noble estate in Germany lit fires." In the words of the repentant von Spee, "everywhere in the whole country smoke is rising from fires, which obscures the light." And here it does not even matter which part of Germany divided into two warring camps is being discussed - witches were everywhere "cozy". Some reformers revered the hunt for witches as a holy duty before God. Poisoning with ergot helped the "justice" to triumph, as not all witches had to wrest recognition with torture, many admitted themselves. To distraught hunters, distraught victims came to the embrace - after all, they ate everything alone. Coming to the grotesque - in 1636 in Koenigsberg appeared a man who claimed that he was God the Father, and that God the Son, as well as the devil acknowledged his authority, and the angels singing hymns to him. The reaction was predictable - for such words he was first pulled out of the tongue, then beheaded, and the corpse was burnt. After all, Luther taught that all the madness of the devil. Before he died, the patient sobbed, but not over his fate, but over the sins of all mankind, who decided to exterminate God the Father. In the Lutheran Elections in Saxony and the Palatinate, as well as in the Principality of Württemberg in 1567-1582. there were own laws on witches, much more severe than the corresponding articles of the code of Emperor Charles V - "Carolina". Witchcraft in the Protestant part of the Christian world flared up with power, which was unprecedented even for Catholics. Protestants have made hatred of witchcraft an integral part of the dogma, and historians still argue who sent more women to the fire: Catholic or Protestant judges. The historian F. Donovan wrote: "If we mark on the map a point every established case of burning a witch, then the greatest concentration of points will be in the zone where the borders of France, Germany and Switzerland. Basel, Lyon, Geneva, Nuremberg and nearby cities would hide under a lot of these points. Solid spots from the points would have formed in Switzerland, from the Rhine to Amsterdam, and also in the south of France, would have sprayed England, Scotland and the Scandinavian countries. It should be noted that, at least during the last century, witch hunts, zones of the greatest concentration of points were centers of Protestantism. " www.evangelie.ru/forum/t73722.htmlwww.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/protin.htmWhy this information when modern neo-Protestants say that they are indifferent to Luther and Calvin?The fact is that these people formulated the Christian tradition as - Only the Scriptures - We see that besides this they are guilty of terrible sins and their followers too. We can not be sure today that modern neo-Protestants differ from their spiritual and ideological predecessors!Matthew 7:15-20 New King James Version (NKJV) You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. You may not understand and criticize Orthodoxy, but you will not find any Orthodox canonical preacher who was as bad as reformers ... Amen!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 20:35:16 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Apr 27, 2018 20:47:28 GMT
Elizabeth and I believe the same exact things, yet you and diamond do not attack her like you attack me No it is not. I do not have anything against you personally. Elizabeth just doesn't want to join the discussion, that's all. I told her it many times, but she was just like you - struggle to the end. Seems Protestants to be not easy for discussions/or we, with Diamond, are not good... I don't know. I just don't see the point in continuing when it will be a waste of time. Everyone has their own beliefs and seem to believe in them very much. And that's fine since we have the free will to believe or not believe whatever we want. I mean people who believe earth is flat aren't going to stop believing it if I continue telling them it isn't. So when I see strong belief like that in someone then I just see it pointless to argue nonstop. So I will be the one wasting my time if I continue but I rather do something else.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 21:01:08 GMT
No it is not. I do not have anything against you personally. Elizabeth just doesn't want to join the discussion, that's all. I told her it many times, but she was just like you - struggle to the end. Seems Protestants to be not easy for discussions/or we, with Diamond, are not good... I don't know. I just don't see the point in continuing when it will be a waste of time. Everyone has their own beliefs and seem to believe in them very much. And that's fine since we have the free will to believe or not believe whatever we want. I mean people who believe earth is flat aren't going to stop believing it if I continue telling them it isn't. So when I see strong belief like that in someone then I just see it pointless to argue nonstop. So I will be the one wasting my time if I continue but I rather do something else. So, here's the problem, Elizabeth. You're saying that learning the opposite point of opinion is just wasting your time, while I insist on that is escaping from learning the opposite point of view is not good at all. Moreover, it is something really weird. If you tell me: 'I have my opinions', I can ask you then: 'Where did you get them?', what would you ask? You aren't going to ask that you're figured it out by herself, aren't you? There are no self-opinions as well as no something exactly yours. We're appeared into light, and we'll be bury into darkness; nothing will left from us, everything will be ruined. So, there are no solid foundations. Therefore, holding something as something very unique is just silly. That's why standing on just one position without any hesitations sparks to darkness with nothing. It is not pointless. Why is it? What belief you're talking about? No belief in the world hide under its tissue. Strong belief? How is it possible? As I said above, there is bright criteria of the faith: Mathews 17:20 NKJV: "Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you". None moves mountains, so I can be sure that there are no people with strong faith/belief in it.
It is very bad that arguing is not going on. Until there would be no arguing, the world would be stayed as it is - in the darkness of selfishness and greed.
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Apr 27, 2018 21:15:03 GMT
I just don't see the point in continuing when it will be a waste of time. Everyone has their own beliefs and seem to believe in them very much. And that's fine since we have the free will to believe or not believe whatever we want. I mean people who believe earth is flat aren't going to stop believing it if I continue telling them it isn't. So when I see strong belief like that in someone then I just see it pointless to argue nonstop. So I will be the one wasting my time if I continue but I rather do something else. So, here's the problem, Elizabeth. You're saying that learning the opposite point of opinion is just wasting your time, while I insist on that is escaping from learning the opposite point of view is not good at all. Moreover, it is something really weird. If you tell me: 'I have my opinions', I can ask you then: 'Where did you get them?', what would you ask? You aren't going to ask that you're figured it out by herself, aren't you? There are no self-opinions as well as no something exactly yours. We're appeared into light, and we'll be bury into darkness; nothing will left from us, everything will be ruined. So, there are no solid foundations. Therefore, holding something as something very unique is just silly. That's why standing on just one position without any hesitations sparks to darkness with nothing. It is not pointless. Why is it? What belief you're talking about? No belief in the world hide under its tissue. Strong belief? How is it possible? As I said above, there is bright criteria of the faith: Mathews 17:20 NKJV: "Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you". None moves mountains, so I can be sure that there are no people with strong faith/belief in it.
It is very bad that arguing is not going on. Until there would be no arguing, the world would be stayed as it is - in the darkness of selfishness and greed.No, I mean I'm wasting my time teaching something they don't want to hear. So, I don't bother to continue teaching it where nothing good will come out of it. Matthew 13:15 15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed. So, such people don't want to hear so I don't speak when I don't need to! Shrug And yes, I did discover it for myself. I think I was 11 and I remembered thinking that I needed to sit down, grab a bible, and see what this Christianity is and if it's really for me. So I read the whole bible and was like, "Yeah, Christianity is definitely for me." If I don't read the doctrine on the religion then I won't be able to fully accept it. So, needed to see if my beliefs could be parallel with the bible and realized they could. So, making sure they always are Moving mountains can just be doing miraculous things in your faith. No need to move physical mountains to place them on buildings and such to exercise faith. That's only making things worse and destroying things by moving mountains from their home. You can move mountains more productively daily and be a miracle to people around you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 21:29:48 GMT
So, here's the problem, Elizabeth. You're saying that learning the opposite point of opinion is just wasting your time, while I insist on that is escaping from learning the opposite point of view is not good at all. Moreover, it is something really weird. If you tell me: 'I have my opinions', I can ask you then: 'Where did you get them?', what would you ask? You aren't going to ask that you're figured it out by herself, aren't you? There are no self-opinions as well as no something exactly yours. We're appeared into light, and we'll be bury into darkness; nothing will left from us, everything will be ruined. So, there are no solid foundations. Therefore, holding something as something very unique is just silly. That's why standing on just one position without any hesitations sparks to darkness with nothing. It is not pointless. Why is it? What belief you're talking about? No belief in the world hide under its tissue. Strong belief? How is it possible? As I said above, there is bright criteria of the faith: Mathews 17:20 NKJV: "Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you". None moves mountains, so I can be sure that there are no people with strong faith/belief in it.
It is very bad that arguing is not going on. Until there would be no arguing, the world would be stayed as it is - in the darkness of selfishness and greed.No, I mean I'm wasting my time teaching something they don't want to hear. So, I don't bother to continue teaching it where nothing good will come out of it. Matthew 13:15 15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed. So, such people don't want to hear so I don't speak when I don't need to! Shrug And yes, I did discover it for myself. I think I was 11 and I remembered thinking that I needed to sit down, grab a bible, and see what this Christianity is and if it's really for me. So I read the whole bible and was like, "Yeah, Christianity is definitely for me." If I don't read the doctrine on the religion then I won't be able to fully accept it. So, needed to see if my beliefs could be parallel with the bible and realized they could. So, making sure they always are Moving mountains can just be doing miraculous things in your faith. No need to move physical mountains to place them on buildings and such to exercise faith. That's only making things worse and destroying things by moving mountains from their home. You can move mountains more productively daily and be a miracle to people around you. I wouldn't say 'there's no need to move mountains', because you're talking crossing Christ's words, and His words have more weight here, so I'd prefer aiming what dktrav said that "'all men are liars', and believe to Christ not to you. So, I don't think anyone here have rights to talk me about Bible since no one has showed me his talents in mountains moving I'm serious. Until someone moves a little rock, I won't believe a word of any 'believers'. But anyway your story with Bible is interesting, because to read the whole Bible in 11, it's... well, it's pretty strong... I guess... I read it and listened to it, but my impressions on it are not good. It fulfilled with contradictions and different stories of one and the same; besides it's Jewish tales there, so I see no solid reason to believe Bible, but do see reasons to believe human. So, I'd rather believe you and dktrav without your biblical stuff.
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 27, 2018 21:52:29 GMT
Jesus just saying even with the faith the size of a mustard seed nothing shall be impossible. He isn’t saying you should move literal mountains with faith, He is just telling us how much power such little faith has. There isn’t any real reason to move literal mountains from their place. Matthew 17:20 KJV [20] And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 22:14:19 GMT
Jesus just saying even with the faith the size of a mustard seed nothing shall be impossible. He isn’t saying you should move literal mountains with faith, He is just telling us how much power such little faith has. There isn’t any real reason to move literal mountains from their place. Matthew 17:20 KJV [20] And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. How do you know what he says about it? Are you a forgotten apostle?.. I don't believe you, you're just confusing us. Great Jesus has said very clear about mountains, there's no need of your interpretations.
|
|
|
Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 27, 2018 22:35:56 GMT
You must understand the meaning! There is no insult in our language! Just not an interesting western style of logic! Your accusations were worse, you are a Christian? What was my accusation? you didn’t tell me you were a comedian This is literally your logic, “If I attack Calvin and Luther, I’m attacking all Protestants! Muahahahaaa!” It’s funny but it’s Sad at the same time. It’s funny because you’re trying so hard, but it’s Sad because you’re making so many assumptions from ignorance which makes you seem odd at times. Elizabeth Can you imagine that in your community in a religious dispute so they talk? Is this the Baptist style? Hmm ... Mortimer The problem is that many Orthodox Balkans doubt that the gypsies are sincere Christians..This is due to gypsy theft and magic ... well this is not of a dogmatic nature .. look here! Orthodox take the gypsy! Therefore, your comments about this are incorrect! Deal with it! www.pravoslavie.ru/75789.htmlDKTrav88 I used to mention the Philadelphia church! Do you doubt that the modern church in Philadelphia is the same as in Revelation ?? But if you were honest to the end you have NO proof of your theory. It just does not fit your Baptist traditions and nothing more! We Orthodox know that Protestant churches are DIFFERENT! If Luther did not start the reformation, then all these churches were NOT! Speaking not even as an Orthodox person, but as a historian of religion and culture ... In Orthodoxy there was no inquisition .. there was not a canonical Ortodox figure who would call for the killing of his opponents! Why? Because it contradicts the New Testament ...
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 27, 2018 22:37:18 GMT
Jesus just saying even with the faith the size of a mustard seed nothing shall be impossible. He isn’t saying you should move literal mountains with faith, He is just telling us how much power such little faith has. There isn’t any real reason to move literal mountains from their place. Matthew 17:20 KJV [20] And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. How do you know what he says about it? Are you a forgotten apostle?.. I don't believe you, you're just confusing us. Great Jesus has said very clear about mountains, there's no need of your interpretations. Okay, I’m not asking you to believe me. If you don’t know what He meant in the scripture then why debate it?
|
|
|
Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 27, 2018 22:42:16 GMT
Jesus just saying even with the faith the size of a mustard seed nothing shall be impossible. He isn’t saying you should move literal mountains with faith, He is just telling us how much power such little faith has. There isn’t any real reason to move literal mountains from their place. Matthew 17:20 KJV [20] And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. How do you know what he says about it? Are you a forgotten apostle?.. I don't believe you, you're just confusing us. Great Jesus has said very clear about mountains, there's no need of your interpretations. He believes in one of Jesus' words .. he does not believe others .. Christ promised to send his Spirit so that he explained to the church all the truths .. The Bible and the tradition about which Paul wrote were saved by his mediation ... All the epistles of Paul were addressed primarily to the Greek Churches and they saved us The Bible and everything else .. even atheists can recognize this fact in historical plane of course!
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Apr 27, 2018 22:49:37 GMT
you didn’t tell me you were a comedian This is literally your logic, “If I attack Calvin and Luther, I’m attacking all Protestants! Muahahahaaa!” It’s funny but it’s Sad at the same time. It’s funny because you’re trying so hard, but it’s Sad because you’re making so many assumptions from ignorance which makes you seem odd at times. Elizabeth Can you imagine that in your community in a religious dispute so they talk? Is this the Baptist style? Hmm ... Mortimer The problem is that many Orthodox Balkans doubt that the gypsies are sincere Christians..This is due to gypsy theft and magic ... well this is not of a dogmatic nature .. look here! Orthodox take the gypsy! Therefore, your comments about this are incorrect! Deal with it! www.pravoslavie.ru/75789.htmlDKTrav88 I used to mention the Philadelphia church! Do you doubt that the modern church in Philadelphia is the same as in Revelation ?? But if you were honest to the end you have NO proof of your theory. It just does not fit your Baptist traditions and nothing more! We Orthodox know that Protestant churches are DIFFERENT! If Luther did not start the reformation, then all these churches were NOT! Speaking not even as an Orthodox person, but as a historian of religion and culture ... In Orthodoxy there was no inquisition .. there was not a canonical Ortodox figure who would call for the killing of his opponents! Why? Because it contradicts the New Testament ... No we get no disputes here where I live. What do you mean? Plus only orthodox slavic church we had here went away which was good because no one went there anyway and they took up good space. Now we have a school there so finally used for something.
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 27, 2018 22:52:37 GMT
you didn’t tell me you were a comedian This is literally your logic, “If I attack Calvin and Luther, I’m attacking all Protestants! Muahahahaaa!” It’s funny but it’s Sad at the same time. It’s funny because you’re trying so hard, but it’s Sad because you’re making so many assumptions from ignorance which makes you seem odd at times. Elizabeth Can you imagine that in your community in a religious dispute so they talk? Is this the Baptist style? Hmm ... Mortimer The problem is that many Orthodox Balkans doubt that the gypsies are sincere Christians..This is due to gypsy theft and magic ... well this is not of a dogmatic nature .. look here! Orthodox take the gypsy! Therefore, your comments about this are incorrect! Deal with it! www.pravoslavie.ru/75789.htmlDKTrav88 I used to mention the Philadelphia church! Do you doubt that the modern church in Philadelphia is the same as in Revelation ?? But if you were honest to the end you have NO proof of your theory. It just does not fit your Baptist traditions and nothing more! We Orthodox know that Protestant churches are DIFFERENT! If Luther did not start the reformation, then all these churches were NOT! Speaking not even as an Orthodox person, but as a historian of religion and culture ... In Orthodoxy there was no inquisition .. there was not a canonical Ortodox figure who would call for the killing of his opponents! Why? Because it contradicts the New Testament ... I said that because I thought what you said was funny. If you took offense to that, well I don’t know what to tell you.. I could give you a few suggestions but you might be offended so there’s no point. And I said that because it is what you are doing. You’re attacking Luther and Calvin when they aren’t an authority for me and many many other Protestants. So it’s pointless to attack Luther and Calvin’s beliefs because they aren’t a copy of mine or vice versa. Mhmm you were trying very hard and arguing from ignorance by generalizing like you do constantly. I’ll say it again, you lump all Protestants into one box and label it when not all Protestants have the same beliefs(I’ve repeated this over and over again now). All I am doing is pointing out inconsistencies in your disputes, and you can’t seem to deal with it and take offense easily🤷🏼♂️ I’ve decided it is better to limit my discussions with you because you are offended so easily. It would be better for both of us and for everyone else on the forum. I don’t follow any traditions 🤦🏼♂️ I can’t even begin to tell you what any if there are any baptist traditions to begin with I just identify with baptists because it just so happens I agree with them the most on biblical doctrines, not traditions. ..that’s another thing, you seem to think everything is about traditions, but for many many many Christians tradition is irrelevant. Biblical doctrine is what is important, what you believe is what is important, not any practice or ritual you perform. No inquisition in orthodoxy? Well you seem to really dislike Romanians and call them gypsies, it’s very bigoted. While you do that my church would accept a gypsy who has come to faith in Christ with no problem. My church is full of Africans Americans, people of European descent, and Hispanic people. We don’t discriminate because God is not a respecter if persons. Anyone who believes is accepted into God’s family.
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Apr 27, 2018 22:55:52 GMT
I still don't get why reformation or Luther or whoever matter. This isn't part of mu church. I read my bible at 11 so if only orthodox and Catholic churches existed then I'd still leave the church. It's noy about Luther or whoever but about what it says in the bible. I cannot attend manyyyyy churches. Even many protestant ones because I read the bible and they're a different religion. I don't know what is hard about this to understand about why no person like Luther or anyone has no value to my beliefs. I care about what they said as much as I care about a dead snail.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 22:56:01 GMT
I want to ask an apology for my words from DKTrav88I don't like to spoil someone's respects as well as to hurt someone's feeling. Good luck, all the best!
|
|
|
Post by Διαμονδ on Apr 27, 2018 23:02:44 GMT
Yes, we should not say why, because your comments are mostly untrue, why? You ignored the fact that the Roma are Orthodox! There are other Orthodox ... ...What concerns Romanians .. I myself of Bessarabian origin .. and the fact that I criticize some does not matter ... Shrug
|
|