|
Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 23, 2018 9:55:25 GMT
The Eastern Orthodox church rejects the Bible's teaching that man is in spiritual bondage due to the corruption of his nature through the fall of Adam. Therefore the Eastern Orthodox church also rejects the doctrine of the imputed guilt of all mankind, having sinned in Adam. The Eastern Orthodox Church teaches that no one is guilty for the actual sin they committed but rather everyone inherits the consequences of this act; the foremost of this is physical death in this world. Scripture says, Romans 5:12-19 KJV [12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: [13] (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [14] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. [15] But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. [16] And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. [17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) [18] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. [19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
As it is clearly written, scripture declares the guilt of all men in Adam, and the necessity of the person and work of Christ as the second Adam who redeems them from that condemnation.
Eastern Orthodoxy teaches the necessity of confession of sin to a human priestly mediator in order for the individual to maintain his salvation, and teaches that the Eucharist is a propitiatory sacrifice for confessed sins in addition to the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Scripture says, 1 Timothy 2:5-6 KJV [5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; [6] Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 7:22-27 KJV [22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. [23] And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: [24] But this man , because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. [25] Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. [26] For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; [27] Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Romans 8:34 KJV [34] Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
As it is clearly written, scripture declares the priesthood of Christ alone, who has made full and final atonement for sin, the only one who can mediate and make intercession for forgiveness of sin.
Both of these Eastern Orthodox doctrines can be considered damnable heresies, as they are not biblical and result in the faith of a different Savior, a different Christ, a different God. I pray that members of the Eastern Orthodox Church repent of these beliefs and use scripture as intended, 2 Timothy 3:16 KJV [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
|
|
|
Post by fschmidt on Apr 27, 2018 6:05:57 GMT
Well, here are some verses that do not state that priests or any guides are needed but that after you confess your sins, they are heard by God right away. So unless you know of other verses that say otherwise then please do share. In these Luke verses a sinner came to the synagogue and humbled himself and was justified. Was there a priest? No. But was the sinner accepted and made justified? Yes. Sure the Pharisee was heard too but he was not justified because trusted not in the right way. Luke 18 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Then here just speaks of people calling directly to God to be forgiven with no priest or guide to be heard by God and they are heard and are forgiven. So what is the point to priest even if God hears us? 2 Chronicles 7:14 Then if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. And we don't reject priesthood. New testament says that the believers are the priesthood. 1 Peter 2:9-10 9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. And yes the bishops and deacons are mentioned. 1 Timothy 3 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. So yes those exist hmm Maybe we need to define our terms. What exactly does "priest" mean? To me, a priest is someone who is educated in his religion and gives guidance to others. And also, there is a hierarchy where priests have more authority to guide the religion as a whole. A priest is not supposed to intercede between people and God, but only guide people and guide the religion. Based on this definition, I see nothing in the New Testament against a priesthood. Regarding 1 Peter 2:9-10, he call these people "a royal priesthood". Should this be taken literally? I mean if yes, that implies that they are royal which means that they are part of the king's family. Obviously this isn't true, so I wouldn't take this literally. The concept of Bishops fits into my understanding of priesthood. These are people educated in the religion with authority who provide guidance.
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Apr 27, 2018 6:24:32 GMT
Well, here are some verses that do not state that priests or any guides are needed but that after you confess your sins, they are heard by God right away. So unless you know of other verses that say otherwise then please do share. In these Luke verses a sinner came to the synagogue and humbled himself and was justified. Was there a priest? No. But was the sinner accepted and made justified? Yes. Sure the Pharisee was heard too but he was not justified because trusted not in the right way. Luke 18 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Then here just speaks of people calling directly to God to be forgiven with no priest or guide to be heard by God and they are heard and are forgiven. So what is the point to priest even if God hears us? 2 Chronicles 7:14 Then if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. And we don't reject priesthood. New testament says that the believers are the priesthood. 1 Peter 2:9-10 9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. And yes the bishops and deacons are mentioned. 1 Timothy 3 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless. So yes those exist hmm Maybe we need to define our terms. What exactly does "priest" mean? To me, a priest is someone who is educated in his religion and gives guidance to others. And also, there is a hierarchy where priests have more authority to guide the religion as a whole. A priest is not supposed to intercede between people and God, but only guide people and guide the religion. Based on this definition, I see nothing in the New Testament against a priesthood. Regarding 1 Peter 2:9-10, he call these people "a royal priesthood". Should this be taken literally? I mean if yes, that implies that they are royal which means that they are part of the king's family. Obviously this isn't true, so I wouldn't take this literally. The concept of Bishops fits into my understanding of priesthood. These are people educated in the religion with authority who provide guidance. Well, in the NT all the Christians are said to be ready to teach and rebuke and correct. And calls them the priesthood. Then when it mentions bishops, deacons, elders, and pastors then they are those who run the church basically. I mean someone has to open the doors and lock it and all that stuff. So they run it basically. They make sure the choir is scheduled to sing, the preachers are ready, everyone has seats, etc. And of course they teach too since part of the priesthood of all believers but they just help in other ways too. Shrug
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 6:59:41 GMT
Maybe we need to define our terms. What exactly does "priest" mean? To me, a priest is someone who is educated in his religion and gives guidance to others. And also, there is a hierarchy where priests have more authority to guide the religion as a whole. A priest is not supposed to intercede between people and God, but only guide people and guide the religion. Based on this definition, I see nothing in the New Testament against a priesthood. Regarding 1 Peter 2:9-10, he call these people "a royal priesthood". Should this be taken literally? I mean if yes, that implies that they are royal which means that they are part of the king's family. Obviously this isn't true, so I wouldn't take this literally. The concept of Bishops fits into my understanding of priesthood. These are people educated in the religion with authority who provide guidance. Well, in the NT all the Christians are said to be ready to teach and rebuke and correct. And calls them the priesthood. Then when it mentions bishops, deacons, elders, and pastors then they are those who run the church basically. I mean someone has to open the doors and lock it and all that stuff. So they run it basically. They make sure the choir is scheduled to sing, the preachers are ready, everyone has seats, etc. And of course they teach too since part of the priesthood of all believers but they just help in other ways too. Shrug It's simple as a day Elizabeth. No need to use Bible in self-evident things: Jesus was a teacher; apostles were teachers... Teachers then are priests now. What else arguments do you need?
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Apr 27, 2018 7:03:20 GMT
Well, in the NT all the Christians are said to be ready to teach and rebuke and correct. And calls them the priesthood. Then when it mentions bishops, deacons, elders, and pastors then they are those who run the church basically. I mean someone has to open the doors and lock it and all that stuff. So they run it basically. They make sure the choir is scheduled to sing, the preachers are ready, everyone has seats, etc. And of course they teach too since part of the priesthood of all believers but they just help in other ways too. Shrug It's simple as a day Elizabeth. No need to use Bible in self-evident things: Jesus was a teacher; apostles were teachers... Teachers then are priests now. What else arguments do you need? Yes, correct! The bible calls even me a priest or all believers because they teach.
|
|
|
Post by DKTrav88 on Apr 27, 2018 7:21:47 GMT
The Eastern Orthodox church rejects the Bible's teaching that man is in spiritual bondage due to the corruption of his nature through the fall of Adam. As a follower of the Old Testament, I will tell you that the Eastern Orthodox church is right and Western Christianity is wrong. Western Christianity's error originates with Saint Augustine who knew neither Hebrew nor Greek, and so he misunderstood the story of Adam. Here is an Orthodox explanation: stgeorgegreenville.org/our-faith/catechism/the-ofall/original-sinFor what it's worth, here is my non-Christian understanding of the story. Adam was the archetype of the average man, the average idiot. This idiot listened to his idiot wife and naturally got into trouble. So the curse applies to average idiots. Abel had the brains to lift the curse for himself by inventing shepherding, so his idiot brother killed him jealousy, which is pretty much how things generally work out between intelligent people and average idiots. To be honest I can’t consider your opinion because you don’t believe the entire Bible.🤷🏼♂️
|
|
Kapitan
New Member
Posts: 8
Likes: 1
Ethnicity: Romanian
Country: USA
Politics: nazi
Age: 20
|
Post by Kapitan on Aug 17, 2018 22:36:30 GMT
Something interesting I noticed in Orthodox confession the priest asks very vague questions usually just yes or no. Meanwhile my experience with Catholicism (was born Orthodox and always Orthodox) seems that you have to go into detail on your own unprompted by the priest during confession.
IDK how it is in other churches but a friend that is a cacthuman in a Russian Orthodox church said they were vague as well.
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Aug 17, 2018 22:48:47 GMT
Something interesting I noticed in Orthodox confession the priest asks very vague questions usually just yes or no. Meanwhile my experience with Catholicism (was born Orthodox and always Orthodox) seems that you have to go into detail on your own unprompted by the priest during confession. IDK how it is in other churches but a friend that is a cacthuman in a Russian Orthodox church said they were vague as well. Well, let's see how it should work. I didn't know this before you mentioned it though. But during a sin confession to a priest. What does the bible say to do exactly?
|
|
lyssyj
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Likes: 39
|
Post by lyssyj on Aug 18, 2018 5:31:01 GMT
HOw I know from local priest main diference between ortodoxy and other kinds of cristianity - you're born in love, but not in grief, god isn't good and loyal, but fair-minded (не милостив, но справедлив), so usually you get what you have done unless you change yourself and repent. But acoording church you have some opportunity to make some shit while you young and have no mature mind - it will be your personal expirience.
And you must know list of death griefs and testaments and proverb "don't male people things you don't want ones be made for you".
|
|