Mocha
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Post by Mocha on Feb 20, 2018 16:40:19 GMT
I'm sick and tired of these godforsaken theists keep saying they have evidence of a god, yet don't show any to us! They think we'll just accept some thinly-veiled fallacies and false premises without us looking twice. We know that's not the evidence, don't try fooling us! Show us the real evidence! Why do they keep hiding the truth of a god from all of us?! I've heard a lot saying there's this god everywhere in nature, but I tried looking under a few rocks and I couldn't find it. Maybe it was under that really big one I couldn't lift, who knows. Some others say it's in the Bible, but I must've skimmed over the part proving a deity or something. Maybe I was too busy laughing at stuff like Joshua 2:1, 2 Chronicles 21:11, and Luke 17:15-16, and trying to figure out the details of how stuff like where the light in Genesis 1:3 came from without a sun or stars, and how the plants in 1:11 grew without the sun. Or maybe it was that light mentioned from before? Where did it ever go, anyways? Who knows. Still others say I just have to open my heart. I've been doing that, but haven't felt anything. Maybe it's a problem with the time zone differences. What's the UTC offset for heaven, again? There are even a few that say something about bananas and how they fit perfectly, but personally I'm a bit creeped out by the way they phrase that. If I didn't know any better, I would almost say they didn't have any evidence...  |
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Post by fschmidt on Feb 21, 2018 4:59:49 GMT
I'm sick and tired of these godforsaken theists keep saying they have evidence of a god, yet don't show any to us! I'm sick and tired of these godforsaken atheists [who] keep saying they don't believe in God, yet when asked to define God, can't. In other words, atheists are sure that X doesn't exist but they don't even know what X is. What kind of nonsense is that? |
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bluesreligion
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Post by bluesreligion on Feb 21, 2018 10:30:33 GMT
It isn't proof the way most people would look at it. The Christians I interact with (protestants all) believe because of personal experiences. They attribute things in their life to their god, from running into an acquaintance to prosperity and everything in between. Of course not EVERY occurrence, but if it seems meaningful to them or has something to do with a prayer, there you go. It is a bit like dumbo's feather or a lucky charm. We all have had powerful personal experiences that have shaped who we are, they just attribute them to a god.
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 21, 2018 10:39:49 GMT
It isn't proof the way most people would look at it. The Christians I interact with (protestants all) believe because of personal experiences. They attribute things in their life to their god, from running into an acquaintance to prosperity and everything in between. Of course not EVERY occurrence, but if it seems meaningful to them or has something to do with a prayer, there you go. It is a bit like dumbo's feather or a lucky charm. We all have had powerful personal experiences that have shaped who we are, they just attribute them to a god. Yes,  . I'm protestant and you said that so totally right |
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cinchknight
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Post by cinchknight on Feb 21, 2018 11:38:38 GMT
Bananas? Theism isn't for everybody. So, some won't see anything important in it. Demons know God exists and it makes no difference to them so it's just part of life. BEHOLD THE ATHEISTS NIGHTMARE! |
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Mocha
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Post by Mocha on Feb 21, 2018 13:41:00 GMT
I'm sick and tired of these godforsaken theists keep saying they have evidence of a god, yet don't show any to us! I'm sick and tired of these godforsaken atheists [who] keep saying they don't believe in God, yet when asked to define God, can't. In other words, atheists are sure that X doesn't exist but they don't even know what X is. What kind of nonsense is that? Well it must be your lucky day, because I can easily both define "god" and "God" god: a supernatural entity controlling some force and/or who created certain object(s) God: the sole god of of a specific abrahamic religion. Which religion specifically this word refers to depends on context. Also, if "[who]" is supposed to be some kind of reference to the phrasing in the first post, inserting "who" in that place changes the meaning of the sentence. Inserting "who" implies I think all theists say that, as opposed to referring to a subset of theists who do say that. |
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Mocha
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Post by Mocha on Feb 21, 2018 13:44:42 GMT
It isn't proof the way most people would look at it. The Christians I interact with (protestants all) believe because of personal experiences. They attribute things in their life to their god, from running into an acquaintance to prosperity and everything in between. Of course not EVERY occurrence, but if it seems meaningful to them or has something to do with a prayer, there you go. It is a bit like dumbo's feather or a lucky charm. We all have had powerful personal experiences that have shaped who we are, they just attribute them to a god. This is probably the most reasonable of the arguments I hear. Problem for me is, depending on how it's framed, it's a case of 'after therefore because'. I gotta have that connection, man... T_T |
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Mocha
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Post by Mocha on Feb 21, 2018 13:45:49 GMT
Bananas? Theism isn't for everybody. So, some won't see anything important in it. Demons know God exists and it makes no difference to them so it's just part of life. BEHOLD THE ATHEISTS NIGHTMARE! Almost forgot about him, too. XD |
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bluesreligion
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Post by bluesreligion on Feb 21, 2018 22:13:04 GMT
It isn't proof the way most people would look at it. The Christians I interact with (protestants all) believe because of personal experiences. They attribute things in their life to their god, from running into an acquaintance to prosperity and everything in between. Of course not EVERY occurrence, but if it seems meaningful to them or has something to do with a prayer, there you go. It is a bit like dumbo's feather or a lucky charm. We all have had powerful personal experiences that have shaped who we are, they just attribute them to a god. This is probably the most reasonable of the arguments I hear. Problem for me is, depending on how it's framed, it's a case of 'after therefore because'. I gotta have that connection, man... T_T It isn't logical. You're not going to reason yourself into it, which I'd say isn't a bad thing. It is a case of "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" like you say. I accept people that do believe, but I don't believe it myself. I'd ask you why you would want that kind of connection, and if there might not be something else you would resonate with better. People who believe in a god don't seem to live better lives then the rest of us, no matter the metric. There are cases of longer life in some religious communities (Seven Day Adventists come to mind), but I believe that can be attributed to the strong social structure churches provide. You gotta find your people rather then try to fit into someone else's mold.  I myself really enjoy the Promethean myth. I also had some experiences that shape my place in the world. ...But that's me. Read and watch and explore to find out what fits you best. |
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Mocha
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Post by Mocha on Feb 21, 2018 22:57:18 GMT
This is probably the most reasonable of the arguments I hear. Problem for me is, depending on how it's framed, it's a case of 'after therefore because'. I gotta have that connection, man... T_T It isn't logical. You're not going to reason yourself into it, which I'd say isn't a bad thing. It is a case of "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" like you say. I accept people that do believe, but I don't believe it myself. I'd ask you why you would want that kind of connection, and if there might not be something else you would resonate with better. People who believe in a god don't seem to live better lives then the rest of us, no matter the metric. There are cases of longer life in some religious communities (Seven Day Adventists come to mind), but I believe that can be attributed to the strong social structure churches provide. You gotta find your people rather then try to fit into someone else's mold. I myself really enjoy the Promethean myth. I also had some experiences that shape my place in the world. ...But that's me. Read and watch and explore to find out what fits you best. >I'd ask you why you would want that kind of connection, Because I'd like my view of reality to be correct >People who believe in a god don't seem to live better lives then the rest of us, no matter the metric. What if the metric is "least likely to become a suicide bomber"? :^) To cite a less-trivial example, I could mention the Piraha, which while their religion is spiritual, it is atheistic. Dan Everett says they're the happiest people he's ever seen, stuff like "they're always laughing and smiling", anecdotes about them dealing with tough times, etc. I feel, like it seems you may be saying too, that it's the community support structure rather than the religion itself allowing the better life. No evidence from me here though, just a hunch. |
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Post by fschmidt on Feb 22, 2018 5:59:43 GMT
Well it must be your lucky day, because I can easily both define "god" and "God" god: a supernatural entity controlling some force and/or who created certain object(s) God: the sole god of of a specific abrahamic religion. Which religion specifically this word refers to depends on context. Also, if "[who]" is supposed to be some kind of reference to the phrasing in the first post, inserting "who" in that place changes the meaning of the sentence. Inserting "who" implies I think all theists say that, as opposed to referring to a subset of theists who do say that. Regarding "who" I was just correcting your grammar. This does not change the meaning as you suggest. As for "god", look it up any dictionary and see a list of several different definitions since there isn't one accepted definition. But let's look at specific examples. Is the god of pantheism supernatural? What about the god of deism? This may surprise you, but there is no requirement in the Old Testament to consider its god to be supernatural. Of course this means not taking the Old Testament literally, but there is plenty of evidence in the Old Testament itself that ideas are expressed metaphorically. I believe in the god of the Old Testament which I define simply as the aggregate forces of nature with no supernatural elements. And I am quite religious. So your definition is wrong. A god is really just a global force or set of forces that cannot be described scientifically. |
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Mocha
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Post by Mocha on Feb 22, 2018 15:43:27 GMT
Well it must be your lucky day, because I can easily both define "god" and "God" god: a supernatural entity controlling some force and/or who created certain object(s) God: the sole god of of a specific abrahamic religion. Which religion specifically this word refers to depends on context. Also, if "[who]" is supposed to be some kind of reference to the phrasing in the first post, inserting "who" in that place changes the meaning of the sentence. Inserting "who" implies I think all theists say that, as opposed to referring to a subset of theists who do say that. Regarding "who" I was just correcting your grammar. This does not change the meaning as you suggest. As for "god", look it up any dictionary and see a list of several different definitions since there isn't one accepted definition. But let's look at specific examples. Is the god of pantheism supernatural? What about the god of deism? This may surprise you, but there is no requirement in the Old Testament to consider its god to be supernatural. Of course this means not taking the Old Testament literally, but there is plenty of evidence in the Old Testament itself that ideas are expressed metaphorically. I believe in the god of the Old Testament which I define simply as the aggregate forces of nature with no supernatural elements. And I am quite religious. So your definition is wrong. A god is really just a global force or set of forces that cannot be described scientifically. >As for "god", look it up any dictionary and see a list of several different definitions since there isn't one accepted definition. Mainly because of these pesky little things called context and nuance. They're all correct defintions, they're just context-dependent, and this is even funnier because you prove my point by using multiple definitions of the same lemmata (eg. be). >Is the god of pantheism supernatural? No, but why bother calling it a god then? If I call everything tuna does that make it tuna? >What about the god of deism? Yes >[Old Testament] Sure, and that means you believe in the god Tuna, because I define Tuna as the entire universe. What amazing places this logic gets us. >So your definition is wrong. Seeing as how you are apparently a prescriptivist, I expected no less. Your definition of Tuna is wrong. Also, you should really consider informing Merriam-Webster, OED, etc about this huge error, because their definitions are far more in line with what I said than what you said. >A god is really just a global force or set of forces that cannot be described scientifically. If it can't be described scientifically, I can't imagine it would be natural. This contradicts your previous statement about how you define the god of the Bible, since any force of nature is able to be described scientifically. |
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Feb 22, 2018 20:23:20 GMT
I'm sick and tired of these godforsaken theists keep saying they have evidence of a god, yet don't show any to us! They think we'll just accept some thinly-veiled fallacies and false premises without us looking twice. We know that's not the evidence, don't try fooling us! Show us the real evidence! Why do they keep hiding the truth of a god from all of us?! I've heard a lot saying there's this god everywhere in nature, but I tried looking under a few rocks and I couldn't find it. Maybe it was under that really big one I couldn't lift, who knows. Some others say it's in the Bible, but I must've skimmed over the part proving a deity or something. Maybe I was too busy laughing at stuff like Joshua 2:1, 2 Chronicles 21:11, and Luke 17:15-16, and trying to figure out the details of how stuff like where the light in Genesis 1:3 came from without a sun or stars, and how the plants in 1:11 grew without the sun. Or maybe it was that light mentioned from before? Where did it ever go, anyways? Who knows. Still others say I just have to open my heart. I've been doing that, but haven't felt anything. Maybe it's a problem with the time zone differences. What's the UTC offset for heaven, again? There are even a few that say something about bananas and how they fit perfectly, but personally I'm a bit creeped out by the way they phrase that. If I didn't know any better, I would almost say they didn't have any evidence... Not going to respond to the rest of the stuff but did you really just ask where the light came from in Genesis when THERE IS A GOD WHO JUST SPOKE IT INTO EXISTENCE in that exact verse? I don't know man, where do you think it came from? Its not like it says it right there in the text or anything. |
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Mocha
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Post by Mocha on Feb 22, 2018 20:53:21 GMT
I'm sick and tired of these godforsaken theists keep saying they have evidence of a god, yet don't show any to us! They think we'll just accept some thinly-veiled fallacies and false premises without us looking twice. We know that's not the evidence, don't try fooling us! Show us the real evidence! Why do they keep hiding the truth of a god from all of us?! I've heard a lot saying there's this god everywhere in nature, but I tried looking under a few rocks and I couldn't find it. Maybe it was under that really big one I couldn't lift, who knows. Some others say it's in the Bible, but I must've skimmed over the part proving a deity or something. Maybe I was too busy laughing at stuff like Joshua 2:1, 2 Chronicles 21:11, and Luke 17:15-16, and trying to figure out the details of how stuff like where the light in Genesis 1:3 came from without a sun or stars, and how the plants in 1:11 grew without the sun. Or maybe it was that light mentioned from before? Where did it ever go, anyways? Who knows. Still others say I just have to open my heart. I've been doing that, but haven't felt anything. Maybe it's a problem with the time zone differences. What's the UTC offset for heaven, again? There are even a few that say something about bananas and how they fit perfectly, but personally I'm a bit creeped out by the way they phrase that. If I didn't know any better, I would almost say they didn't have any evidence... Not going to respond to the rest of the stuff but did you really just ask where the light came from in Genesis when THERE IS A GOD WHO JUST SPOKE IT INTO EXISTENCE in that exact verse? I don't know man, where do you think it came from? Its not like it says it right there in the text or anything. Yeah but did the god create light or a light source? Was it a single event or was it happening continuously? What happened to the light? These are the parts I'm unclear on. |
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Clovis Merovingian
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Post by Clovis Merovingian on Feb 22, 2018 21:31:01 GMT
Not going to respond to the rest of the stuff but did you really just ask where the light came from in Genesis when THERE IS A GOD WHO JUST SPOKE IT INTO EXISTENCE in that exact verse? I don't know man, where do you think it came from? Its not like it says it right there in the text or anything. Yeah but did the god create light or a light source? Was it a single event or was it happening continuously? What happened to the light? These are the parts I'm unclear on. Ah, okay. Sorry for being rude, I'm a bit cranky today. Anyways the whole structure of Genesis revolves around Gods creating a space then filling it. One day one he creates light and darkness, on day three he fills it with the sun, moon, and stars which were to light the earth suggesting that the light has been replaced. On day two he separates the sky from the sea; on day four he fills it with fish and birds respectively. On day three he creates the land and the grass; on day six he fills it with humans and people. The reason that light was created before the sun is I think for two reasons, to fulfill this narrative device and to frame it in a 24 hour day period complete with light and darkness without the sun, moon, and stars. |
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Ponderer
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Post by Ponderer on Feb 22, 2018 21:50:59 GMT
Mocha, a scientist like yourself knows that matter is comprised 100% of energy. Thus energy (including light) was created first.
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. I'm protestant and you said that so totally right 
